Logical, not "chicken little the sky is falling" thinking. Thanks DonC. I hate companies being gutted without evidence.
And I agree, if I had dogs - especially prone to the disorder -- on just grain-free, I might switch for added protection.
Raw Food Diet??!?!
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Does your dog have problems eating chicken since he got sick eating cooked chicken? My Arnie has allergies and I do not feed him anything with chicken or chicken fat in it. I do not feed raw though.
Jennifer
Jennifer,
I've been giving him chicken since I got him 3 months ago. I've been giving them chicken thigh meat (baked organic). He never had any vomiting. but he I have stopped since Saturday. I've also cut back on the amount I was feeding them as I think it was a little too much food. They aren't fat but it puts stress on the digestive system. Vet gave me some 3 cans of Science Diet ID which is turkey and pork (low protein and fat) and recommended 1/2 a can at each feeding which is .415 ounces. I have a scale and weigh it in baggies.
Paolo is doing well right now and has not vomited. -
Hi All,
Just joined and stumbled upon this forum while doing raw feeding research. I have a friend who feeds her Aussie raw diet (fresh and raw chicken quarters, eggs, liver, etc..) and she has noticed a huge improvement in his teeth, fur, pretty much his health in general. My 5 year old Basenji girl has food allergies and gets a horrible rash all over her legs and belly.
The vet recommended a very specific (and VERY expensive) hypoallergenic food and 6 months and $220 later she still has allergy issues so I decided to take matters into my own hands and see if raw feeding would help.
I came across a website from a gal named Jane Anderson and she has tons of good information and put my worries about feeding bones (dogs choke on kibble too), potential bacterial issues (dogs systems are built to handle it), and that pre-made raw foods are really no better than feeding kibble (additives, no bones, salt, plus $$$). The more research I did, the more it makes sense to switch off kibble 100% - for the sake of her health!
www.rawlearning.com <– I really encourage all who are considering raw feeding to read her "Raw FAQ"
Thanks for reading! Thoughts and additional information are appreciated.
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My fiance and I feed our Basenji a flavor of Orijen dry food once or twice a day and Stella and Chewy's prepared raw food once a day at most. She seems to prefer the venison over the rabbit, duck, lamb, and beef all offered by the same brand. Of course she's more enthusiastic about any raw food than the Orijen though when we transitioned from Blue Buffalo to Orijen she mowed down on the Orijen. We feed her cooked and raw vegetables once a week mixed into a day's worth of meals. We did quite a bit of research about canine diets before determining that this diet would probably be our best deal for her and us. We are willing to pay for prepared food knowing the pros and cons of that route versus any other…the raw diet requiring daily planning required too much time and space for us.
But now it seems she's having some digestion issues. Over the last 3 months, she seems to strain to go potty and has had three multi-day episodes of diarrhea. At the beginning of the 3 month period, we took her to the vet who said she was badly dehydrated from the diarrhea. He tested her for giardia and although it came back negative he said she could still have it (test not definitive). With some antibiotics and stool hardener her symptoms basically disappeared within a few days but popped up twice again since that original episode. This last time we went to the vet again who tested her for giardia again which was negative. She also gave her a thorough exam including a finger probe into her butt but felt nothing unusual though she said her gut felt a little swollen with liquid when she felt her belly. She then gave us a different antibiotic and a dietary supplement (Fortiflora) and told us to feed June a high fiber wet food until her digestion improved. Once she's doing well on the high fiber food then transition her to our dry Orijen and if she stays normal on that we know it was something in her original diet (presumably the raw or certain veggies) that was causing her digestion issues.
She also said that between the variety of food we feed her, the frequency with which we go to the dog park (a nightmare in some ways because anything goes in public), and anything she may have eaten without our knowledge, we have too many variables for a good diagnosis. She said it could be something as simple as her diet...and of course this vet office is "ok with" but not encouraging of any raw diet though some people there seem to think prepared is better (I think cause there's intact cooked bones in most prepared food I've seen). Of course it could also be some allergy so we should pay attention to everything she's eating and it's specific ingredients to identify if something in particular leads to her symptoms. We didn't get her an x-ray (yet) so of course something could be caught in higher up in her GI tract and causing her issues. But the diet is an everyday variable so its suspect no matter what with these digestion issues.
We know it wouldn't be a tragedy to feed her only Orijen the rest of her life with the occasional raw treat now and then (freeze dried necks and hearts)...but then again we want to keep the prepared raw food in her diet if we can due to its benefits assuming her digestion issues have nothing to do with the raw food. We'll see how she responds over the next few weeks.
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Hi! Just read this thread as I too had done quite a bit of research as I wanted to determine if raw was the way to go for Uzie. Every food I tried just seem like he eventually got dry skin, itchy, and just seemed hungry all the time. Well, for the past month he has done well. but I do not give him so many fruits or veggies on a daily basis. I love to vary it for him, a few days chicken (no side effects), some frozen prepared, and then beef and throw in organ meat as well. What did you mean by this quote: "We feed her cooked and raw vegetables once a week mixed into a day's worth of meals."? Maybe this is the culprit for the diarrhea. The vet found a lot of fluid and if you mashed it or however you gave it, it just could be that there is too much of the fluid from the veggies. Remember, their gut is made to digest meat, as the veggies we give them just go through as bulk. Maybe your girl is getting too much? just a thought and hope it helps. Every time I read about a problem I immediately think' go raw!' Know it is not for everyone. I am still learning. Just the other day, I found out Uzie is a 'GULPER' and not a chewer for chicken necks! I freaked when I saw half the neck go down his throat! He is ok, a semi fast the next day and a little tunafish for dinner the next made me feel better thinking about those bones in there! So it has been three days and all normal stools-phew!
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Amazing how much their poop can tell you, best thing you can do is keep a close eye on it, have gotten very good at dissecting Kaisers. If I had been more conscious of what is healthy poop and signs of problems in his earlier I may have picked up his leaky gut sooner. Agree with Buddys Pal regarding vegies, waste of space. Vegies for Kaiser is green tripe. Glad my boy is a cruncher, still manages to swallow big bits( hold my breath and hope it goes down) but only after he has crunched the bone to pieces, cat gets chicken necks and Kaiser gets turkey necks.
Jolanda and Kaiser
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We've been feeding Juniper dry Orijen only since the vet visit and all her digestion issues have cleared up. The simplification of the diet does seem to have worked as it eliminated whatever variable was causing her GI distress. She's eating less with the Orijen but certainly not starving herself. We may work raw food back in with small portions every other day or something like that, depending on how she digests the first few raw meals we'll give her in a week or two.
When I said we fed her veggies, we would cook small portions of carrots and peas or sometimes give her a frozen raw carrot (great for chewing and amazing for a teething puppy)…and if we cooked the veggies we'd normally we'd just dump them over her raw food and she'd eat it all like the veggies weren't even there. But I think now we're done with the added veggies since it seems like an unnecessary addition to her diet otherwise. The Orijen is completely balanced so she's getting all she needs from that, raw on top of that would just be for her enjoyment since she lops it up like a steak dinner.
About swallowing food/treats, Juniper has scared us before with a turkey neck. We thought we could look away for a minute, then we were ripping apart our home looking for the neck...but it was never found, so we had to assume she swallowed it in under 60 seconds! That was months ago so she's definitely passed it without issues since then. The good news is she tends to chew on every food item especially the larger it is, just never as much as we'd like (seems like a common feeling of owners of B's). Now we know to watch her like a hawk in case she's feeling too lazy to chew. Thankfully the more crunchy it is the more she seems to like to crunch on it, so she will work on a quarter-cut of a duck neck for a minute before she swallows the pieces she broke apart.
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I just took Paolo to the vet as he had been throwing up 4-7 hours after eating last week. Vet said he had some gastritis. When I told the vet I fed him some (1/3) frozen raw (Steve's Frozen Raw) mixed with canned he was like "I wouldn't feeD him raw as he could get bacterial poisoning". I've had Paolo for over 3 months and have been feeding him that and he seemed OK although had been itching and licking himself a lot which could be anything. I was experimenting last week to see what was giving him trouble and it seemed that when I did not include the raw he was not throwing up and when I added it back he would vomit (4-7 hours after). Now one day I came home and gave him a little cook chicken breast, we went for a walk and after we got home he threw it up. I feed the same to my other B, Buddy and he seems fine. They both were getting probiotics in their food as well. This what it says on Steve's Raw Food website.
What about E.coli, Salmonella and other microbes?
Steve?s Real Food uses only the highest quality (100% human-quality) ingredients, but this is a very legitimate concern, and is often the first question pet owners have. It is also an easy question to answer. Properly prepared raw meat-based diets are very safe for dogs and cats. Always be sure to use safe handling procedures including washing hands, bowls, counter tops & utensils used for raw feeding.
"We regularly test our foods for our guaranteed analysis, Salmonella, E.coli 0157-H7, & Campylobacter (click here for our latest test results) to ensure our products safety. We also test our foods for hormones, antibiotics, and pesticides (our food sources are of such high quality that residues are very unlikely, but we love our pets too much to take any chances).
We then instant flash freeze (-50 degrees ) our foods to eliminate the possibility of parasites. This also locks in the freshness of the vital nutrients raw foods have to offer. "
Anyway I have Paolo on just canned right now and the vet has prescribed antibiotics for the week.
Hi! I too took to the idea of feeding 'real' food instead of the processed stuff that keeps getting recalled. Even the high quality food, there runs a risk of salmonella due to the time it takes to digest it. With raw, the dog's stomach is suppose to digest it and will not sit in the gastro-track. The advice of the others is right on, you will find websites, books, and forums with some differences. What I have learned so far in this past 6 weeks:
- don't mix raw with kibble on the same feed. you can still give kibble if needed.
- every dog will not thrive on a raw. It is up to you to know your pup and do accordingly.
- you have gulpers and chewers. when I watched Uzie 'gulp' the chicken neck, I freaked!! (not out loud and didn't disturb him). He processed it and pooped just fine.
- you will be an expert in poop reading! this is how you determine how they are processing the food. http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dry-canned-dog-food/3092-poop-chart.html (this is good! put your snack down before you look at this!)
- no need to grind up eggshells (yep, did it…) cause when you feed bone in, they get what they need.
- here is basic calculator for how much: http://www.bravorawdiet.com/howmuch.html
- no weight being bone of large animals. I have feed wings but not thigh bones….working up to it. the best and less costly way to start is the chicken back. they love it. you many want to start feeding outside or guard the doorway to the kitchen cause they want to 'go somewhere' and munch!!!
- some links I liked :http://preymodelraw.com/page/articles.html
http://www.njboxers.com/top-50-barf-faqs-for-beginners.html#.UpC9liewWp0
ps: some may say to fast before switching, not so. but if it makes you feel good, cook it a little like I did for the older guys(11 &12) and then watch how they love to get fed!!! good luck!
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I have mentioned ZiwiPeak before and been ignored - is it not available in the US? It is very expensive, and the scoop makes it easy to underfeed, but Butu really likes it. (He's not that keen on Orijen, though he will behave for the Orijen treats!)
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ZiwiPeak is available in both the U. S. and Canada, according to their website. It appears to be a dehydrated product, much like the NRG I feed.
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It is indeed dehydrated and has the stuff like the organs and tripe - it seems very good….
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My guy didn't care for ZiwiPeak. I use Primal (either freeze dried or raw) for breakfast and dry for dinner. I still haven't found a dry food he really loves but the Primal has been a hit so far.
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Thanks for the info. Haven't seen Primal here. Unfortunately the big pet shops here don't tend to stock the good stuff, but a new store near me has Canagan, Orijen and Ziwipeak, so have a happy boy….
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Ok, just had to add some more. Had a friend over yesterday (our first thanksgiving turkey, then Thursday again!) and she saw Hershey 12.8 years old and she mentioned how alert he was. Coat and eyes were clear and shiney! I was really excited to hear this as I read this about others' dogs in different forums etc. So, anyone thinking about it, it is not a fad…..it works and they all love it!
