Picky Fanconi dog
-
Hi, Our 5yr old basenji, Lily, was diagnosed with Fanconi's in Mar 2012. Since then we've adjusted pretty well and the vet is convinced that Lily, is reading the text book she's doing so well. We discovered early on that the only way we could get her to take her 23 supplements a day was to make pill pockets out of Kraft singles. Then she didn't want that so we switched to Kraft mozza singles. Now she won't take that either. We've tried hot dogs, pb etc but if she catches even a whiff of the pills she refuses to eat it.
I'm wondering if anyone has any other suggestions on how to get these pills into her. Or if you have a recipes for a homemade pill 'pocket' please pass it on!
Also, when she was first diagnosed my husband was working in the US so was able to get the Pet-tabs & Pet-cal supplements(Not available in Canada that I can find). However when he went down in Oct he went to 3 pet stores and no one had any and it sounds like they may not make them anymore. Does anyone know of similar supplements that we can substitute or if they are still in production how we can source them in Canada?
Any help would be appreciated!!
Robin
-
I did post a couple of ideas for you in the member intro section, but here are some others. How many bicarb is she on per day? Those are pretty much the only ones that have to go in whole - the rest could be crushed, mixed in with food, etc. Instead of the Pet Tabs Plus, we used the extra strength vitamins from Revival Animal Health (I think their brand is Doc Roy's). Our Fanconi dogs liked the taste much better and would eat them as a treat. Instead of Pet Cal, you can use powdered dicalcium phosphate (available in the horse section, comes in fairly large quantities, so it lasts forever). I think 1 teaspoon is the conversion for 1 Pet Cal. Because it's powdered, you can mix it in the food with a little canned dog food.
Again, I urge you to join the Yahoo Fanconi Dogs group; fabulous people and a wealth of experience!
Terry
-
http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=fanconidogs
As posted on your other thread, here is the link to the Fanconi Yahoo Group. I too urge you to join
-
I have had to become a quick study with advanced Fanconi in a dog that was unfamiliar to me and was reported to be finicky. Maybe some of this will help:
1. If you haven't already done this, have your vet email Lily's lab results to Dr. Gonto - his email address is on the bottom of the 2003 Protocol. There are changes coming to the protocol that will simplify the amount of bicarbs recommended. It is possible, assuming your vet used the 2003 Protocol to recommend the number of bicarbs, that Lily is getting more bicarbs than she needs. Given that it is not always easy to get stuff into a b, if fewer will work, life will be better. Per Dr. G: "99% of dogs we start at 3 to 4 bicarbs, twice a day, and that seems to get them corrected. If it is a "late catch", we may see five or six tabs twice a day, but not very often anymore."
2. If Lily is cooperative, you might try using a pill gun for the bicarbs and potassium. I try to get multiple pills down with each use, so I'm not 'jamming' something down the throat repetitively. Multiple bicarbs may go down more easily by cutting the bicarbs in half and stuffing them into gel caps (we order online - bacon-flavored http://www.capsuline.com/ecom-prodshow/115.html ). The potassium tablets barely fit in a gel cap, but it can be done if it helps to get the pills down. Everything but the bicarbs and potassium can be crushed and blended in with canned food. The Calcium Phosphorus by Pet Ag resembles the powdered cheese in Mac 'n' Cheese boxes - and seems to appeal to this picky boy as much as Mac 'n' Cheese appeals to kids.
3. If Lily isn't so cooperative, you may have better luck with meatballs. Get her used to 'dummy' meatballs first - no pills inside. I've found size is important - it is best to keep the meatball at ~ one teaspoon in size - large enough to hide the pill, small enough to swallow whole (which may need to be smaller for a tiny b). I use a measuring spoon to get a better, firm shape to the meatball and another spoon to work the shape. My fingers never touch the meatball, so no pill powder is transferred to the outside of the meatball. I have been testing different canned for 'packability'. He wrinkles his nose at everything, but it mostly seems to be because he doesn't want to get his lips dirty…
4. I use wire fencing to keep the Fanconi boy separated from the pack while allowing the pack to get close enough to make it obvious that they are interested in what he is getting - and will take it if given the chance. I think the idea of competition has helped his appetite greatly.
5. I think there was a temporary manufacturing backorder on PetTabs Plus. I had no problem getting a couple of 365 count bottles of PetTabs from jefferspet.com recently. They also carry PetTabs CF (the replacement for PetCal), but I've found Calcium Phosphorus from Pet Ag easier to use - and more appealing to get this boy's appetite stimulated.
As already said, joining the FanconiDogs Yahoo group does provide support from those who have 'been there.'
Good Luck!
Pam -
Pam said her post not yet approved so sharing for her: :::
I have had to become a quick study with advanced Fanconi in a dog that was unfamiliar to me and was reported to be finicky. Maybe some of this will help:
1. If you haven't already done this, have your vet email Lily's lab results to Dr. Gonto - his email address is on the bottom of the 2003 Protocol. There are changes coming to the protocol that will simplify the amount of bicarbs recommended. It is possible, assuming your vet used the 2003 Protocol to recommend the number of bicarbs, that Lily is getting more bicarbs than she needs. Given that it is not always easy to get stuff into a b, if fewer will work, life will be better. Per Dr. G: "99% of dogs we start at 3 to 4 bicarbs, twice a day, and that seems to get them corrected. If it is a "late catch", we may see five or six tabs twice a day, but not very often anymore."
2. If Lily is cooperative, you might try using a pill gun for the bicarbs and potassium. I try to get multiple pills down with each use, so I'm not 'jamming' something down the throat repetitively. Multiple bicarbs may go down more easily by cutting the bicarbs in half and stuffing them into gel caps (we order online - bacon-flavored http://www.capsuline.com/ecom-prodshow/115.html ). The potassium tablets barely fit in a gel cap, but it can be done if it helps to get the pills down. Everything but the bicarbs and potassium can be crushed and blended in with canned food. The Calcium Phosphorus by Pet Ag resembles the powdered cheese in Mac 'n' Cheese boxes - and seems to appeal to this picky boy as much as Mac 'n' Cheese appeals to kids.
3. If Lily isn't so cooperative, you may have better luck with meatballs. Get her used to 'dummy' meatballs first - no pills inside. I've found size is important - it is best to keep the meatball at ~ one teaspoon in size - large enough to hide the pill, small enough to swallow whole (which may need to be smaller for a tiny b). I use a measuring spoon to get a better, firm shape to the meatball and another spoon to work the shape. My fingers never touch the meatball, so no pill powder is transferred to the outside of the meatball. I have been testing different canned for 'packability'. He wrinkles his nose at everything, but it mostly seems to be because he doesn't want to get his lips dirty…
4. I use wire fencing to keep the Fanconi boy separated from the pack while allowing the pack to get close enough to make it obvious that they are interested in what he is getting - and will take it if given the chance. I think the idea of competition has helped his appetite greatly.
5. I think there was a temporary manufacturing backorder on PetTabs Plus. I had no problem getting a couple of 365 count bottles of PetTabs from jefferspet.com recently. They also carry PetTabs CF (the replacement for PetCal), but I've found Calcium Phosphorus from Pet Ag easier to use - and more appealing to get this boy's appetite stimulated.
As already said, joining the FanconiDogs Yahoo group does provide support from those who have 'been there.'
Good Luck!
Pam -
It is my understanding that Dr Gonto can only respond about the protocol to a Vet and can not give advise direct to an owner, so you may want to have your Vet sent that information to him. Or send the lab information and copy your Vet so that he can communicate directly with your Vet if he suggests changes.
