@eeeefarm Yea. My phone auto corrected and I didn't catch it. 😆
2 1/2 yr old male "mongo"
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I'm not a fan of the "hypoallergenic" prescription diets at all because of the crappy other ingredients they use. The reason they can claim to be hypoallergenic is not because of the clean production facilities, but because of a process where they alter the proteins on a molecular basis so that the body ceases to recognize it as a specific protein, and therefore doesn't react. In my opinion, you can do better with a high-quality, limited ingredient, novel protein kibble, raw diet (home-prepared or commercial), or home-cooked diet to battle food allergies, which is a process.
I say this from a somewhat intensive experience of having to deal with my Shiba's allergies. We cut out all grain, chicken, and beef in any form and put him on a commercial raw diet of turkey and sardines for two months to try and "turn over" his immune system. Also got him properly diagnosed with canine hypothyroidism, which often manifests as skin symptoms. Since you mention Mongo's "aggression," you may want to consider getting his thyroids tested, too. Anyway, my vet kept treating my boy for allergies alone, prescribing pricey drugs and never talking about nutrition except to suggest their prescription diets. I decided to try it my way, and within one season I was able to get him off of ALL prescription drugs (except the Soloxine for his thyroids, a very cheap hormone support for what he is no longer able to produce himself) and on a radically improved diet. It's been two years, two and a half summers, and his allergies have never returned like they did that year. Knock on wood.
Dr. Dodds and Hemopet's Nutriscan saliva test is very detailed, but pricey:
https://labordatenbank.com/cake/hemopet/samples/hemopet_form/0/nutriscanI'd really like to try it, but since we're doing well with our current feeding and hygiene regimen, I don't find it very urgent.
You can also Google "elimination diets" and consider embarking on that tricky but valuable process if you do feel the problem is due to food allergies. In my opinion, with constantly itchy dogs, it's often a combination of both internal and external factors, so the best defense is to boost the dog's immune system, the body's primary natural defense, not through immune-suppressing drugs but through proper nutrition and supplements. Lots of information out there to help if that's a course you want to take.
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The testing will probably cost less than the special diet and medication(s) the vet is going to put the dog on since the one medication costs $150 a month!
He should have a thryoid test done but make sure it is a complete thyroid test not just the t4! Low thyroid can cause skin problems and aggression.
Jennifer
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Where about in Alberta are you Mongo's Mommy? Where did you get your B from? How old is little Mongo? and have you talked to your vet about a raw diet?
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Curly tails: what do you mean by novel protein? What food did you end up putting Shiba on?
We are located in Edmonton, Alberta. We got him from Beaubri (which I did email about this issue with no response!!)
He has licked all the hair off his groin and "armpits". He only licks his paws if they are dirty….he has to sleep in the hall as the licking was SO irritating!!! Poor buddy, I feel so bad for him! We don't bathe him often, as per the breeders instructions.....should we bathe him more?
Thanks for all the advice! This is exactly what I have been looking for. I feel vets have a bias towards things that they can sell you, when maybe its not the absolute best for the animal! -
Sorry, I should've been more clear – Novel proteins are meats that your dog has never eaten before... For example, if your dog has primarily eaten chicken-based food over the years, they could develop an intolerance to chicken in adulthood. Chicken, beef, and lamb are common in most commercial dog food (check list of ingredients -- often, even if they say a food is one thing, it'll still contain other ingredients like chicken fat, etc.). Anyway, if your aim is to do an elimination diet, you'll have to find a "novel protein" that Mongo has never had before to start with.
In our case, we fed the Primal Raw turkey & sardine recipe for two full months:
http://www.primalpetfoods.com/product/detail/c/7/id/8Not sure what the availability is like in Canada, but there are other brands too. The food itself was a bit pricey (most commercial raw is spendy), about $60 ~ $80/month. But yes, cheaper than meds and repeated visits to the vet! Bowdu took to it quite easily, and it did make a difference in the long run, if only to encourage his appetite and interest in food. Once we got used to raw meats, and I had some time to read more about raw diets, I moved to home-prepared meals, which is significantly cheaper. And because I don't have all the time in the world to make food for my dogs (I wish!), I reintroduced high-quality, fish-based kibbles for morning meals. So now we basically do kibble in the morning, and then a variety of stuff in the evening for dinner, with an emphasis on lots of fresh food.
I like Dog Food Advisor for researching commercial dog food brands (they also review dehydrated foods, raw, wet, dry foods):
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/There are lots of good books and websites on raw and home-cooked recipes too. Here's just two that I've spent some time with:
http://dogaware.com/
http://www.monicasegal.com/As an immediate remedy, you can try adding fish oils to his diet to boost skin health. I give the dogs the same stuff I take. 1000 ~ 1200mg capsules, once a day, paired with just a bit of Vitamin E oil (if you can get it in dropper form, 2 or 3 drops / Basenji should be sufficient).
I think quick baths are okay if you're dealing with environmental allergies. Even if it's just a gentle hose-down with plain water, no soap. I use baby wipes every day during spring and summer, which I think also keeps some of the allergens away. Multi-pronged approach, to be sure!
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Hi Mongo's Mommy,
We were having problems with our Colby chewing on his feet and loose stools. We tried limited ingredient dog foods. High protein foods gave him loose stools but then he started having constipation. So right now we are feeding him a mixture of Wellness Simple Duck and Rice Kibble and Fromm's Duck and Sweet Potato Formula Kibble. I just keep experimenting sloooowly. What is d/d food?After further researching my own recommendation, I realized that Wellness is made by Diamond Pet which was the company responsible for all the recalls and pet illness/deaths. Therefore, I can't recommend them and will be weaning Colby off of it, but I would look for a limited ingredient diet.
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I don't know what e-mail address you used for Simone, but it could be the wrong one. She is in BC now, not PEI any longer. Contact me privately and I will see what I can do about contacting Simone for you.
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@Mongo'smommy:
Curly tails: what do you mean by novel protein? What food did you end up putting Shiba on?
We are located in Edmonton, Alberta. We got him from Beaubri (which I did email about this issue with no response!!)
He has licked all the hair off his groin and "armpits". He only licks his paws if they are dirty….he has to sleep in the hall as the licking was SO irritating!!! Poor buddy, I feel so bad for him! We don't bathe him often, as per the breeders instructions.....should we bathe him more?
Thanks for all the advice! This is exactly what I have been looking for. I feel vets have a bias towards things that they can sell you, when maybe its not the absolute best for the animal!I would try to phone Simone. She is probably doing some showing as I know she had a really nice pup she was going to enter this summer. I have never had a problem with her before (I got my two from Terrarust, they live on the same property). Give her a call and you will probably get a better response from her. I would not bathe him as this may be causing some of the irritants.
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I will try calling again. The email was off of the Basenji Association (?) website….it did have her new mailing address.
I guess we need to hit up the specialty dOg food store and research their foods. That dog food website is Awesome! What a resource!
We are adding the olive oil, plus we have an rx for prednisone to start and get things under control. I will keep you posted! -
The trouble with a "shotgun" approach is that if it works you have then to figure out which change caused the improvement. Do try to keep track of what you did, when you did it, and when you saw results, so that any change may be attributed to the correct source.
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The prices you are being charged seem outrageous. I have dog with an immune mediated disorder that has needed immune suppressants and her veterinary specialist said the good news about most of them is they are available as generics and so are not that expensive. Right now we are on a weaning protocol for prednisone, the specialist calls the prescriptions into Target because generics are only $4 for 30 pills that way. If the condition flares back up we will be adding, most likely, cyclosporin because we want to minimize the prednisone because of its side effects, that will also be only $4 because it is available as a generic. I don't know how things work in Canada but in the US the vet can write the prescription to be filled elsewhere like a human pharmacy or a different pet pharmacy. I would have a talk with your vet about why they want to use the very expensive name brand rather than much cheaper generic especially considering how long the dog may be on the drug.
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The prices you are being charged seem outrageous. I have dog with an immune mediated disorder that has needed immune suppressants and her veterinary specialist said the good news about most of them is they are available as generics and so are not that expensive. Right now we are on a weaning protocol for prednisone, the specialist calls the prescriptions into Target because generics are only $4 for 30 pills that way. If the condition flares back up we will be adding, most likely, cyclosporin because we want to minimize the prednisone because of its side effects, that will also be only $4 because it is available as a generic. I don't know how things work in Canada but in the US the vet can write the prescription to be filled elsewhere like a human pharmacy or a different pet pharmacy. I would have a talk with your vet about why they want to use the very expensive name brand rather than much cheaper generic especially considering how long the dog may be on the drug.
The vets here will also write a prescription that can be filled at a regular store. When we got meds for Flame they were called in to my pharmacy and we got them filled there. Apparently dogs are not considered children though so you cannot get the meds under your work medical plan!! LOL. But I do believe the prices for the RAW diets at specialty dog stores can get way out of hand also the food that you get at the vet's offices here, if they are 'special', can be very pricey also.
Have you had your dog in for allergy testing? Also one of my friends swears by a holistic vet that is in Edmonton. If you would like I could find out the contact info for you for the holisitic vet.
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I don't know about the pharmacies in Canada but because the large stores like Target and Costco can get the bulk generics quite inexpensively the $4 price is without insurance covering anything, that is just their price for many generics. It has made a huge difference for us since the immune suppressant dose of pred was 2 pills per day so we could get a month supply for $8 and now that we are weaning off, it is $4 for two months worth.
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I don't know about the pharmacies in Canada but because the large stores like Target and Costco can get the bulk generics quite inexpensively the $4 price is without insurance covering anything, that is just their price for many generics. It has made a huge difference for us since the immune suppressant dose of pred was 2 pills per day so we could get a month supply for $8 and now that we are weaning off, it is $4 for two months worth.
Yup same as up here. Walmart, Superstore or Costco will all sell generic pills. Most of the time they ask you if you want brand name or generic. The meds are all the same and generic is cheaper so I dunno why one would go with name-brand. Edmonton is a bigger city than where I live so there should even be more options there.
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The cyclosporine that the vet wants him to have is a veterinary only med (I am a pharmacist so I was asking why he couldn't have the human version…..she said it was due to this $$ one being specially formulated for dogs)
The vet didn't recommend allergy testing. Basically said that it wasn't cost effective. Does anyone from Canada recommend a specific raw food brand?Prednisone is amazing.....one dose and his underside is back to normal color and no scratching!
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This year is horrible for everything-allergies, bugs, heat, etc. Pred is good for short term usage, but you will need to watch for long term. Raw food varies from region to region in Canada. BARF is available in TO, but not here in Niagara, so there are alternative companies. You will need to contact people in your specific area for recommendations. As for the cost of meds in Canada, our costs for meds are outrageous, and not always readily available. While in the US, you can go to a farm store like TSC and get certain meds there, we do not have that option here. And, in Ontario, we are limited further. I cannot even get a lice pesticide for my chickens because pesticides are banned. So you have to be sneaky and smuggle them in. Just to fill a prescription at a drug store it is $10-that's not including any cost of meds. Strictly filling fee. We just have stricter pharmaceutical laws in Canada and that definitely shows in the price. I have to pay $40 for 180 thyroid pills, in the US I could get 1000 for what? about $100-150? Not nice up here if you run into trouble and don't have options.
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Have you asked about being referred to a specialist? They are much better versed in the treatments and medications and though their services are not cheap in the long run they can save you money especially with an issue that may be life long. I love my regular vet and they are very good but they referred us to an internal medicine specialist with our one with immune mediated issues. It has definitely been a long road but things are continuing to get better.
Also, here is an article about Atopica, http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/Dermatology360/Dermatology-Update-Using-the-new-cyclosporine-form/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/659289
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I cannot even get a lice pesticide for my chickens because pesticides are banned.
Really? I've got that dust on stuff for my horses (Dry Kill) that kills lice. Mind you, I haven't bought any recently. Not sure if it works for bird lice, although I believe bird lice can affect horses. I think I had my bout with them when I had pigeons roosting in my run in shed. (yeah, lice are supposed to be host specific, but so are fleas, and cat flees certainly love me!)
Prednisone has some annoying side effects (thirsty, hungry, peeing more) and some potentially dangerous ones. Dumps the immune system so they are more prone to infections. And it can be difficult to properly taper them off if they have been on it long term. Been there, done that, years ago with my girl with the suspected brain tumour. Best to find out what the problem is ASAP, although it may well be seasonal. Did you try something less potent, like Benadryl (antihistamine), first?
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Yes, really! I was just at minor bros and couldn't get any. Used to be able to, but not any more. Now, from what they tell me, you have to have a license. Now that, is really, really dumb. They haven't given us any alternatives for stuff like that-they just took everything away. I've given them ivomec to see if that works. And how happy do you think the hobby farmers are?
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I will have to check my farm supply store. I don't personally have much use for pesticides and avoid them when possible, but when you actually need something it isn't pleasant not to be able to find it! I do support regulation as we had a horrible problem with overspray of very toxic chemicals from the potato crop behind us in the past. The idiot used to spray on windy days (supposed to be illegal) and I had so much on my hay crop one year that the environment ministry official who investigated implied I had sprayed it myself! Ridiculous! Apart from anything else, I wasn't licensed to buy the chemicals in question even had I wanted to!
Sorry for the thread hijack. Back on topic: I had a suspected ragweed allergy problem with my guy, and Benadryl helped somewhat, as did keeping him away from the weed as much as possible, but if it is a seasonal allergy it can be hard to avoid contact. Food or something else in his environment is another story. Prednisone will certainly knock it down, but IMO is (or should be) only a short term solution.
