Eye issue

[JoT]

Thank you for this update.

Sounds like you are doing an excellent job.
What are you now using for the daily lubricant?

I have a MinPin that has been on a daily regiment (twice a day) of Tacrolimus for ~8 years and will be for the remainder of her life. I swear by the stuff.

[Chealsie508]

For daily lubricant he is using brand name Lacri Lube..it's either systene or refresh…I can't remember. It's a new process so I'm still tying to work the kinks out to get it to go smooth...currently I'm bribing him with candy ( his favorite). The double whammy will come on the nights I have to dremel his nails AND put the gel in his eyes (drops would be so much easier!!)
Oh well, he's my baby so if he needs it, he get it....and even when he doesn't need stuff, he STILL gets it!

[Patty]

Thank you for the update on Oakley. Even if he has to have treatment permanently it matters not if it helps him. Your concern for others who may have corneal dystrophy is very kind and typical of the posters on this forum.

[Chealsie508]

Your right Patty, if daily lubricant is the answer to reducing symptoms then it's totally worth it. And I also try to lower fats to help prevent it from his other eye. While many people hear of PRA or PPM when talking about basenji's I really didn't know anything about corneal dystrophy or even te difference between corneal degeneration vs. corneal dystrophy. I hope that anyone that had a basenji and is questioning something they saw in their dogs eyes that it could be what Oakley has. So I hope I've included everything from initial physical characteristics to doctors to treatment, prognosis and treatments. I'd be happy to talk to anyone wondering about more. It's important to remember that whole corneal dystrophy is a good prognosis that if symptoms of erosion pop up and are left untreated that it can affect vision long term. Hope this helps someone

[Chealsie508]

For the breeders out there: is it possible for corneal dystrophy to disappear??? Oakleys had that hazy spot in his eye since a pup, he was diagnosed by an opthamoligist and since his "outbreak" I've changed his diet and he gets daily lubricant drops…but the past two months that spot is gone...I don't know how to explain it, Id know that spot on his eye with my eyes closed and it's not there... Any explanations??

[Nemo]

When I took my dog to the eye doctor, she said they could improve with diet over time. No guarantee though. The spots improved on my dogs eyes over time but did not completely go away.

[Chealsie508]

That's so interesting…I cut out the bully sticks (much to his dismay)...but I am totally shocked that there is no presence of any cloud spot in his eye...I wonder if its a "cure" or if the affected area is still considered "affected"...I'm not complaining, just so stunned to look at his face and not see anything at all

[tanza]

As far as I know, it can be better, but not cured…..

[Chealsie508]

That's what I figured..I might call his opthamoligist…and ask perhaps that if the same spot can/will reoccur...it's truly puzzling to me, I let waiting to post thinking "tomorrow" it will return or "maybe in a different light"...but it's completely gone

[tanza]

Could be that it has improved to the point that you don't see it and only the Opthamoligist will be able to detect it…. Be interesting to hear what he/she says about it...

[DebraDownSouth]

My rottie had a spot that came and went. I took him to UGA, they said they see them with higher fat diets, had never seen them cause a problem, and that cholesterol in dogs.. well they just don't know if it is a problem but lower the fat if I wanted to. Since that was well over 12 yrs ago, I have no idea what the new thinking is but he lived to 12 (very old for a rottie) and never had an issue.

PPA… I am not a breeder. I am in no way an expert on or that knowledgeable about PPA. But I do know when Arwen, whom the breeder had told me was examined and eyes clear, had so many strands on arrival her eyes were blue. The ophthalmologist at UGA told me he hadn't seen strands that numerous in 2 decades, but none attached where likely to cause issues. I had her spayed. The breeder insisted I should still breed her. I told her she lied about the dog, she sent a dog we got to SHOW that was not ever going to be something I would breed and no, she would not be bred. I understand with limited gene pools you have to retain some problems.. but I really hope one day the breeders can start addressing issues such as excessive PPA, severe hernias etc.

And I agree with Pat, even if you can't see it, I really would have them examine him as they probably can.

[tanza]

I think that breeders (most) have addressed excessive PPM and we see more and more Basenjis that CERF. Iris to Iris PPM couple of strands still CERF… now days as requested by BCOA. Not sure what you mean by "severe hernias"? Over 80% of Basenjis have Umbilical Hernias. Only a handful have had problems.

[ownedbyspencer]

I'm so glad Oakley's eye has cleared, Chealsie. He seems to be outgrowing all his problems– always a good thing! Did you completely eliminate the Bully Sticks? Do you think they had an adverse effect?

[Chealsie508]

All in all, my opthamoligist gave Oakley a good prognosis and suggested that if he ever had any erosions I could treat with lubricaing drops (which he did and I treat as such daily).. Through research I found that the cloudy spot was actually a fat/cholesterol deposit and that sometimes a high protein diet or a fatty diet could exacerbate symptoms. At the time he was getting a bully stick a day…treats that weren't the offender and on the Iams intestinal sensitivity food..I called my opthamoligist and he suggested I could switch his diet and monitor but that it wouldn't cure the dystrophy. I switched to Fromms dry food and cut out the bullysticks..he wasn't getting nutritional value from his old food and I felt I could find a high quality formula he agreed with and had less controversial ingredients.. To answer honestly, I feel cutting out the sticks made a difference...
I haven't ever calculated fat percentages in his food + his treats etc..and while I don't think he ever had excessive amounts, I feel I've decreased the fat, kept protein at a manageable level and perhaps it's worked.
One things for sure..he's always been sensitive..lol, we've come leaps and bounds from 10weeks to 28months..he seems to work out the kinks on his own..I wish I could take credit!

[DebraDownSouth]

Pat, sorry… I meant those that need surgery to correct. Sealed off, no issue. Though of course I wish we could even find a way to decrease that. Again, I understand limited gene pool and you have to look at what is important, and that for MOST it is never an issue. But again, Cara had to have surgery. I hate them. Other breeds have managed to pretty much limit them, perhaps one day Basenji breeders can too. Again, too, I find no studies about whether those with hernias that don't need surgery vs those that did produce more that need surgery, because well... when so many HAVE hernias, and for the most part it isn't a biggie compared to other things... no one is doing the research. But I can hope one day, no?

As for excessive ppm, we'll agree to disagree until they have studies proving that dogs that pass CERF due to ONLY having iris to iris, but have a lot of strands do not produce more puppies WITH strands and more with strands that can indeed cause problems. I know, it is my own emotional response to being told Arwen could pass CERF (only iris to iris) even though "impressive" (the vet's word) number of strands. I do know that responsible breeders have improved the PPM issue dramatically from the "old days" and I hope that responsible breeders would have taken one look at Arwen and spayed her on the spot. But the number of people who told me not to worry about it was quite alarming. So I apologize if my comment seemed knee-jerk, but obviously 10 yrs later I am still mad.

[tanza]

Debra, Arwen would not have CERF'ed. While iris to iris is acceptable, but only if just 1 or 2 strands, not excessive as you are describing. I suppose that it would depend on how the Vet listed the PPM. My Vets make notations on the amount of strands. And it is a bit surprising (and I remember way back, you and I talked about Arwen and her PPM) that it really was just iris to iris. I had a male with excessive PPM (no he was never bred) and it was iris to iris, iris to lens, etc…. and you could see it with the naked eye for his entire lifetime.

But I do agree with you, breeders need to always, always keep all the issues in mind when breeding and the more we reduce problems is only all the better for the breed. And these issues should always be on the radar screen

[lisastewart]

Tempest had her first eye exam at 5 months and CERFd with one iris to iris PPM. We took her back to the same Opthomolgist last month and her eyes were perfect. Sometimes a strand or two will disappear as the dog matures, I have had this happen with dogs previously as well, but only when its just a strand. An annual eye exam will help to detect any changes in eyes.

On my last contact lens exam my optometrist found a cholesterol deposit on one of my eyes and recommended I get a blood test, my cholesterol has always been really low, but did show higher upon that test. She told me that once you have a deposit in the eye it never goes away.

[Chealsie508]

Thanks Lisa,
That's a good reference to note…although his opthamoligist suggested it wasn't necessary for him to be seen yearly unless I noticed a change I did and have planned on a yearly opthamoligist appointment despite the doctors recommendations. His eyes are so clear I have examined them so intensely lately for that spot but it just isn't apparent to the naked eye anymore..I'm very curious to see if the doctor will detect it in his exam..

[DebraDownSouth]

Pat, yeah, it was many but the specialist from GA (who does CERF btw, or did, could be retired at this point) said all were iris to iris and none should cause her issues. But you can still see them. I am comforted to know that a lot of strands don't pass as I honestly don't remember seeing that limitation, only on placement. Been a long time since I looked at CERF. But the issue was and then, the person LIED. She sent me a puppy for my child, who already had more on her than any child should with my health issues, that she obviously had no clue about– a puppy she had no clue about it's eye health. And then wanted her back if I wasn't going to breed her as she would. Yeah, over my dead body.