It is my understanding that Dr Gonto can only respond about the protocol to a Vet and can not give advise direct to an owner, so you may want to have your Vet sent that information to him. Or send the lab information and copy your Vet so that he can communicate directly with your Vet if he suggests changes.
Sick Dog Question– help, please?!
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A dog with Fanconi Syndrome only needs to be on a low protein diet if it is in renal failure or going into renal failure. It is based on the blood tests-BUN and Creatinine.
I would wait until Spencer is over his illness and feeling better to have another blood test for the AKLP. Was the test result for the ALT normal? What about the other liver tests?
Jennifer, his ALT was fine (50) and so were the other liver values. CREA was 1.9 (up from 1.6 in Sept) and BUN was 19. Only the ALKP was high, at over 2000 (up from 869 in Sept). Dr. Gonto recommended that I put Spencer on a lower protein diet after he had a seizure four years ago. I give him quality proteins in a moderate amount and watch the phosphorus, but I don't restrict him totally. He's tired of chicken and rice, so I'm going to have to broaden our culinary horizons. What do you feed Missy?
I can see that I've misjudged bison, so I'll have to look into that. Perhaps some fish, too. He hasn't been too interested in my culinary pursuits today. I'll try Muttloaf tomorrow. That's usually good for a day or so.
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It'd be easier if you'd just move to my neighborhood. I could tell you where to get bison from (could even show you where they live!), or I could just give you some longhorn burger that I have in the freezer. (the longhorn is about as lean as bison. I've never had to "drain the fat" as is called for in some recipes. Downside is that I have to add something for burgers to stick together) I have another 1/4 animal coming next month. Grass fed and delivered by the woman who raised it. Sometimes you can find local ranchers on craigslist or maybe ask at your local feed store. You will need a freezer, but it's much, much better meat than you find at the supermarket. I also have eggs from my neighbor. Don't know why his hens are still producing, just happy they are!
Longhorn burger? Now that sounds tasty! Though the people at the University of Texas probably wouldn't think so.
Sometimes, we get good cuts at the farmer's markets, along with fresh veggies, but those are pretty much shut down until spring. I'll have to cozy up to the butcher at the grocery store and see what he recommends.
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I love longhorn! Lmao…. I'd eat a longhorn burger or the steak tips!! O boy, I now have to eat!
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Okay, I am clearly not up on my meats! Poor little Spencer lives in a pasta and salad household. He's lucky to get chicken and organic veggies!
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How is Spencer doing? My elder gal did not have fanconi, but in the last few years of her life, her kidneys were declining. We had her on 100ml SQ twice a day, so you can imagine that she urinated quite frequently. She didn't always make it off the bed. I got 2 water-proof mattress pads from Wal-Mart 300ct for about $25.00 a piece. I got 2 because at 3am the last thing I wanted to do was sleep on a wet mattress or a lumpy towel. They are great, not like the ole rubber sheets!
I am sending Spencer healing thoughts and prays for a speedy recovery, but it does sound like he is on the mend.
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Spencer is continuing to improve– thanks for asking! He has not wet the bed except for that one night, so I'm not sure what was up with that. I folded a beach towel under him just in case, but he has been holding his urine all night. We had him on subQs twice a day for a week, and I was having to get up every hour and take him out. So, wow, it would be hard to do that on an ongoing basis. He is drinking on his own now, and so far, he's getting enough. This weekend, I will go in search of the waterproof mattress pads. Thanks for the Wal-Mart tip-- I'll start there!
Spencer's weight is still problematic. He is very thin, and it's disturbing to see him looking so malnourished. His coat is glossy and his eyes are clear, but every bone in his body juts out. I'm running the gamut of foods, but he's just a picky eater and has been getting pickier for about a year now. I'm feeding him smaller meals and hoping that will help, not just his organs, but his psychology-- the old "Hey, this isn't much, I'd better scarf it right up" trick. He's probably too smart for that. When someone's begging you to eat, you figure it's probably gonna keep coming-- and maybe the next offering will be even better. Sigh.
One issue might be the pills. Even before he got sick, he was tired of finding pills in his food-- not the bitter bicarbs he takes for Fanconi, but his vitamins and Omega-3s. He might be the only dog in the world that hates the taste of fish oil and beef-flavored chewables. I have been giving him all the supplements separately to entice him to eat. So far, it's gotten a lukewarm reception. Today is Muttloaf Day-- we'll see what that brings!
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Well done to Spencer and to you naturally. Hopefully he'll put on more weight but I've never had experience of Fanconi affected dogs so don't know how much is that and how much because of his inability to eat for a while.
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Muttloaf Day was a success! Spencer chowed– well, more than he has chowed for a good while. Much better than "Eat Mor Chikin" in our house.
(Okay, no, I didn't use bison or longhorn or even angus-- just plain old lean ground beef.)
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I love longhorn! Lmao…. I'd eat a longhorn burger or the steak tips!! O boy, I now have to eat!
Well, if you're ever in the neighborhood, I'll do a pot roast. Knives are not needed. Last week I cooked the filet - OMG!!! Poor pups didn't get any of that.
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Muttloaf Day was a success! Spencer chowed– well, more than he has chowed for a good while. Much better than "Eat Mor Chikin" in our house.
(Okay, no, I didn't use bison or longhorn or even angus-- just plain old lean ground beef.)
Was that the recipe I linked to? My dogs LOVE it, even Diggie. And it's nice because it gives you room to use whatever is in season at the moment. I often use the dried crasins instead of the fruit. If he continues to be picky, you may want to try to up his exercise a little. Or I could send Zest! to your house and he'd learn to eat it before she does. Yep, she'll take it right out of his mouth. This is how Jet the trying has learned not to play with his food.
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This weekend, I will go in search of the waterproof mattress pads. Thanks for the Wal-Mart tip– I'll start there
I suggest that you go on-line first at Wal-Mart.com. They often do not have the pads in stock. I ordered mine off line and had them shipped to my local store at no additional cost. It does not take a long time to get your item shipped either. I could even pay for them on line. With everything going on I thought I might save you a wasted trip. I did a lot of research on the mattress pads and by far they had the least expensive ones. They no longer carry the particular ones that I purchased, but if you type in the search box; waterproof mattress pad, several come up.
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Was that the recipe I linked to? My dogs LOVE it, even Diggie. And it's nice because it gives you room to use whatever is in season at the moment. I often use the dried crasins instead of the fruit. If he continues to be picky, you may want to try to up his exercise a little. Or I could send Zest! to your house and he'd learn to eat it before she does. Yep, she'll take it right out of his mouth. This is how Jet the trying has learned not to play with his food.
Yes, thank you! I had made it before using a recipe from the yahoo kidney forum, and I do like you do and modify it with whatever I have. Spencer usually loves it, and he ate well yesterday. He could certainly use Zest to light a fire under him– get her on the underground railroad and send her on! When he was younger, Spencer lived with two Goldens, who were chow hounds and would take over the bowl. He would crawl under them, between their legs, and stand at the bowl, gobbling his share. He didn't used to be picky. But since he became Fanconi-affected, I have had to use yummier and yummier stuff to get the pills down. He has learned that there is better stuff out there and it will come his way if he bides his time. I know-- owner problem, not dog problem. Sigh.
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I suggest that you go on-line first at Wal-Mart.com. They often do not have the pads in stock. I ordered mine off line and had them shipped to my local store at no additional cost.
Great idea, thanks! I will do that today. It will save me some time. I'm so behind with work and everything else that it will definitely help to have it shipped.
Spencer had a small incident last night. I had a towel underneath him, so it didn't seep through, but the rubber mattress pad is a good precaution. I'm hoping that it's just the antibiotics, but at 14, with Fanconi, his kidneys aren't going to get any better. I'll be happy to just maintain!
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How are Spencer's teeth? I have found as my dogs get old they sometimes are uncomfortable in their mouths, and not so anxious to eat. Obviously he will be fussy about his mouth anyway, given his recent problem, but is there any chance he has teeth bothering him as well?
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How are Spencer's teeth? I have found as my dogs get old they sometimes are uncomfortable in their mouths, and not so anxious to eat. Obviously he will be fussy about his mouth anyway, given his recent problem, but is there any chance he has teeth bothering him as well?
Yes, I think that was part of the problem. Spencer's teeth weren't awful, but I hadn't wanted to put him under for a cleaning for over a year, because of his age and his kidneys. He had a complete dental when the vet extracted the tooth, so now the teeth that remain are pearly white! I have been using the C.E.T. rinse and brushing his teeth for years, but I will be extra vigilant now. Hopefully, that will keep them clean and prevent any more bacterial infections. Unfortunately, the Plaque-Off doesn't seem to work for us at all.
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Yes, I think that was part of the problem. Spencer's teeth weren't awful, but I hadn't wanted to put him under for a cleaning for over a year, because of his age and his kidneys. He had a complete dental when the vet extracted the tooth, so now the teeth that remain are pearly white! I have been using the C.E.T. rinse and brushing his teeth for years, but I will be extra vigilant now. Hopefully, that will keep them clean and prevent any more bacterial infections. Unfortunately, the Plaque-Off doesn't seem to work for us at all.
Sometimes when they get to be elders, not much works, especially if they are ill. Or at least that is what I have found. If their immune system is compromised I believe that it effects all different parts of their "inner workings" and being a Fanconi dog, certainly his would be compromised. All you can do is the best you can to keep him as happy as possible. And at his age and being a Fanconi dog, being a "slave" to find things he will eat in my opinion is just being a wonderful Basenji Mom…. I know with my elders I would make anything they would or might eat!
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I feed Missy a mixture of half Evo Red Meat Small Bites and half another meat protein dry usually lamb or venison which has less protein and she also gets 2 tablespoons of canned dog food-meat based. She is still pretty active outside except when the weather is not good. She runs out with the other dogs to chase animals.
Jennifer
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Sometimes when they get to be elders, not much works, especially if they are ill. Or at least that is what I have found. If their immune system is compromised I believe that it effects all different parts of their "inner workings" and being a Fanconi dog, certainly his would be compromised. All you can do is the best you can to keep him as happy as possible. And at his age and being a Fanconi dog, being a "slave" to find things he will eat in my opinion is just being a wonderful Basenji Mom…. I know with my elders I would make anything they would or might eat!
Yes, it's all about trying to keep them as happy and as healthy as possible for as long as possible! We had a very close call, but I sense that Spencer wants to go on for a while longer. As long as I feel that, I'll do what I can to help him. We're experimenting with all sorts of food (no bison yet!) and seeing what sticks. Who knew the little guy was such a food snob?!
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I feed Missy a mixture of half Evo Red Meat Small Bites and half another meat protein dry usually lamb or venison which has less protein and she also gets 2 tablespoons of canned dog food-meat based. She is still pretty active outside except when the weather is not good. She runs out with the other dogs to chase animals.
I'm always glad to hear that Missy is still doing well! I'll have to check into venison– I don't recall seeing that. And it's great that she's still a good eater. Spencer started getting really finicky when he was 13, and I've had a problem with him eating dry ever since. Thanks for sharing the info about Missy's food!
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For one of my elders (no Fanconi, but was in kidney failure) for a while she really liked Shrip sauteed in a little butter and mixed with scrambled eggs.
