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Menopause vs Basenjis - PLEASE READ my story! This is very important!

Basenji Health Issues & Questions
  • Maybe vets, like human docs, start along one diagnosis track and are so focused they don't think outside the box. In retrospect, all that you say, eeeefarm, makes perfect sense! Especially both dogs being involved. Note to vets, bald dogs belonging to 40-ish females: check hormone levels!

    So goad you have an answer at last, hopefully they will be furry little critters soon!

  • Very interesting and does make perfect sense… I am glad now that I went through menopause "naked".. so to speak. However it was not fun....:(

  • Thank you everyone…......especially Anne "my new best friend" in Tampa who suggested that I might only be 40-ish!!! :) hehe

  • WOW - thanks for sharing. I wonder about people babysitting small children, does it rub off on them? I'm guessing it rubbed off on the dogs, or were they licking you?

  • Just for interest sake, I ran the scenario by my niece, who is a vet. She knew about the connection…...and would have nailed it. Nice to know she is on top of things like this.

  • Topical human hormones and animals was mentioned in this

    thread

    Hope I did this right.

  • @nobarkus:

    Read this article.
    http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=15950

    I read this one earlier today, Dan. Scary, huh?!

  • @eeeefarm:

    Just for interest sake, I ran the scenario by my niece, who is a vet. She knew about the connection…...and would have nailed it. Nice to know she is on top of things like this.

    GOOD FOR HER!!! Wish she'd been my vet!

  • @agilebasenji:

    WOW - thanks for sharing. I wonder about people babysitting small children, does it rub off on them? I'm guessing it rubbed off on the dogs, or were they licking you?

    In the articles I've read so far it CAN affect children. I'm still trying to find out if it can affect other adults….like my husband!
    And, yes, it must have rubbed off on my dogs.....because they do not lick my arms. I pick Haley up twice a day to give her pills because she has Fanconi. I do not pick Prince up, but I've noticed that when I lay on the bed to pet him I am touching him with my forearms and hands. The specialty vet and articles that I've read site dogs licking the area though. That's definitely not the case with my dogs.

    P.S. I rarely wear anything with sleeves since I live in Mesa, Arizona.....my arms are almost always exposed!

  • Did you all get a chance to look at the pics I posted earlier of Haley and Prince? Pretty dramatic, huh?!

    Since I'm around them practically 24/7 I don't always consciously SEE how bad the fur loss is…..........but when I look at them in pictures, I get really upset!!!

  • @CongoMama:

    Topical human hormones and animals was mentioned in this

    thread

    Hope I did this right.

    Interesting thread, CongoMama! I doesn't say if she ever figured out her puppy's problem or what it was. Even though the post is over a year old, I still sent her a message about it. Hope I hear back from her! Thanks!

  • @CongoMama:

    Topical human hormones and animals was mentioned in this

    thread

    Hope I did this right.

    Interesting thread, CongoMama! I doesn't say if she ever figured out her puppy's problem or what it was. Even though the post is over a year old, I still sent her a message about it. Hope I hear back from her! Thanks!

  • @SyberSade:

    Hi Dan,
    Who is Dr Dodds and the OFA? (color me BLOND! teehee)
    Sadie

    You will get more credibility by using the OFA recommended labs than Dodds. I would contact the company and demand reimbursements for your veterinary costs. Please make them act responsibly!

    What I don't get is why his testosterone would go up with your spray, which is only estrogen. High estrogen levels actually decrease testosterone. If you find out what the cause is, can you let us know.

    I know estrogen can cause havoc. I use the patch and I make sure it is in a container in the trash safe from the dogs. Do not flush your patches folks–- they end up in our water as filtration, not so good at removing estrogen. :(

    I am glad you found out though. Now they can begin to regrow their hair.

  • @DebraDownSouth:

    You will get more credibility by using the OFA recommended labs than Dodds. I would contact the company and demand reimbursements for your veterinary costs. Please make them act responsibly!

    I've thought about that! I did just read an article about a woman who did contact the makers. They told her to submit her $600 worth of bills to them and they would consider reimbursing her. In the end they DENIED the reimbursement. I'm not one bit surprised by that! And my bills have got to be quite a bit more than that….especially because I have TWO dogs affected! I've asked our specialty vet to put me in touch (if possible) with the other people in my area who's dogs were exposed. One of them had THREE dogs.....all greatly affected! Maybe we can do something as a group?!

    What I don't get is why his testosterone would go up with your spray, which is only estrogen. High estrogen levels actually decrease testosterone. If you find out what the cause is, can you let us know.

    It was not his Testosterone that was high….it was his Progesterone. I will have the vet explain the connection to me later and "report out"!

    I know estrogen can cause havoc. I use the patch and I make sure it is in a container in the trash safe from the dogs. Do not flush your patches folks–- they end up in our water as filtration, not so good at removing estrogen. :(

    Great reminder for everyone! Use great caution with these hormones….....even if we cannot SEE them they are still be there......and they are POTENT!

    I am glad you found out though. Now they can begin to regrow their hair.

    I cannot wait to see them with fur again!!!!

  • Do you see the fur coming in at all?

  • Not yet, Dan. It's only been 9 days, though. Evedently, WATCHED HAIR WON'T GROW! haha

    But, what I have noticed on Haley is that she is starting to have some discharge from her swollen vulva. I'm studying all of her health issues/vet records right now, and I see that this same set of symptoms happened one time when I went away for two weeks. Obviously, she wasn't exposed to the topical Estrogen on my skin for the time I was gone and by the time I got home she was having these exact symptoms. Though the symptoms sound awful….I'm taking this as a sign that since I stopped the Evamist spray and started using the tiny patch on my belly instead, her exposure to the hormone has dropped dramatically. I'll consult the vets this week about it and see if the other Estrogen-exposed female dogs in their practice has experienced the same thing.

    Toooooo much information????!!! Are you sorry you asked??!!!!! ;)

    Sadie

  • Thank you so much for posting this warning.

    I am acutely aware of what chemical residues can do and make upas many natural sprays as possible. I'm (thankfully) well past the Menopause and so haven't experienced this - 'll be passing on your warning to all the doggy folk

  • UPDATE: It's 2 1/2 weeks after the doggies stopped being exposed to the topical Estradiol. I am definately seeing new hair growth on Prince! I think I can see a little here and there on Haley, too. I believe from the skin biopsies that her skin was in worse shape than Prince's…..and she did have 1 more year of exposure than he did. Also, I've started a blog called Our Hormone Dilemma so I can try to connect people with similar stories and help those who are in the research phase of this crazy ordeal. If you know of anyone (female OR male) using topical hormone replacements of any kind, please give them this URL: hormonedilemma.blogspot.com

  • Was there some sort of warning (pamphlet) that came with the spray? If not, I would contact the the drug company/FDA. This is a serious matter. If they indicate that you can spray it on your arms, the drug company/FDA and doctors need to know you have to apply it to an area that is covered.

    APPARENTLY THE FDA DOES KNOW
    http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/PostmarketDrugSafetyInformationforPatientsandProviders/ucm220185.htm

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    I too am sorry for not seeing this thread sooner and hopefully the poster will return. My Basenji had some teeth removed and the vet prescribed Carprofen as the follow up antibiotic. My Basenji turned out to be allergic to Carprofen which caused her liver to fail. I went through the same scenario you are describing. She gradually quit eating over the course of several days and then her water consumption started to go down. The eating had me worried since she had an excellent appetite upon return from the vet and the final purging of the anesthesia from her system. Nevertheless, her condition started to degrade. I followed her outside and watched her urinate. Her urine was a very bright yellow. I suspected then a liver issue. Once back inside she was shivering - off to the vet we went. LIver panel blood work up showed very high on specific indicators for failing liver. Vet prescribed Denamarin (containing SAM-e and silybin). SAM-e helps protect liver cells from cell death and aids in cell repair and regeneration. The Vet also started fluid injections. Fluid injections were everyday for two weeks. My Basenji showed a remarkable response to the fluid injections becoming much more her normal self even after the first day. She hated the injections and I could hear her cry when receiving them at the vet (believe me that will tear you up). But she was doing better and she (me) were going to have to tuff this out. Also a different antibiotic was prescribed to prevent liver infection during recovery. The Denamarin comes in dosages based on weight (medium for us). It is the size of a large human like solid oblong vitamin pill. Instructions want you to give it on an empty stomach and preferably not to cut it or place in something similar to a pill pocket however you can if necessary. My Basenji would not take that size (can't blame her). Cutting and disguising it did not work either. I was frantic and got the SAM-e in powder form. I couldn't slip her that either. All though some folks had success with peanut butter and liverwurst. I finally after three days had to have the vet pill her along with her fluid treatments. A week later another blood sample and her liver panel indicators were coming down. The pilling would last for a month and it took two people to get the pill down her. The important part is - she fully recovered from the liver failure. She is 13 1/2 yrs old. My experience after having 5 Basenjis is that the breed is sensitive to medications (anesthesia also). Many of the medications work just fine in most other breeds and mixes. The vet, if not that experienced with the Basenji, must be cautioned. Mine was not. Before accepting any medication have the vet go over any contraindications with you and to double check their resources for potential side effects when dealing with Basenjis. They may switch to something else if a medication has a bad track history with Basenjis. Know what to watch for should your Basenji start to react in a non-positive manner. The poster did not indicate if there were medications in play when the dog started showing degenerating conditions. I sincerely hopes this helps in some way and helps other Basenji owners
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    Check with Iris Craven, Kasai Basenjis. She is in Maryland and might know of a vet in your area… and also might be able to help you with the IPSID dx. She is a long-time Basenji breeder and has been around to see many many things happen in Basenjis.
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    So many of those poses and positions are the same things I see Paco do. I'm also no expert, and Paco's my first dog that's mine-all-mine for me to watch all the time, but I feel like Tag's face is very Basenji-like…and if he yodels as well... if he doesn't have Basenji in him, I'd at least say you could describe him to others as a Basenji-like dog.
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    Our red girl dog has the same problem. Freaks out when you touch her ears with a swab, but loves the inside of her ears rubbed when petting her. You know the two handed ear & cheek rub. That gave me an idea!. I found some real soft white - tight gardening gloves (unused), gave her an ear massage and cleaned her ears out. it worked well. I was extra careful not to push the dirt down her ears, but did kind of a wiping motion out and away from her inner ears. She loved it!
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