Kipawa and anxiety

[agilebasenji]

I like my DAP for this sort of stuff. Otherwise, you may want to get McConnell's booklet, I'll be Home Soon. As an extra bonus, tawzerdog.com has all books 1/2 off this month.

[renaultf1]

@agilebasenji:

I like my DAP for this sort of stuff. Otherwise, you may want to get McConnell's booklet, I'll be Home Soon. As an extra bonus, tawzerdog.com has all books 1/2 off this month.

+1. I bought that book when Ruby was the only basenji in my house and it has some great tips. One thing discussed is no big hellos or good byes, matter of fact comings and goings and tone of voice.

Oh and one question…has the behavior started since he had the bad experience at the dog park or was it going on previously?

[sharronhurlbut]

Sounds like Therese is right on. I have learned b's go through this and its a stage..if handled correctly. Your a great basenji mom Fran!

[Kipawa]

@Buddys:

Hi Fran, just read through your thread about Kipawa's anxiety. If I may make the suggestion for the car: Get ready to get him in the car as you would normally do if you go somewhere. Watch for 'signs'! If he wants to turn and run, then this is the starting point for Counter Conditioning and Desensitizing. Go back to the house, get a high value treat, and commence to start to the car. Praise him for no anxiety. If you can get to the car, give treat, then see if you can get him in the car-he must jump in on his own accord. Coax with treat if need be. This may be the point at which you stop the session for now. The next time you may be able to get him in, turn the engine (give treats for good behavior) and then turn off the engine. THe next time you may be able to back the car up and return. Always watching him for stress. Reward with treat for no stress or just reward to associate the car with good stuff. You see where this goes? Slow steps and progress to being able to go around the block and back home. Further and further-may take months….Patience Persistence and Consistency. Also, if none of this works, but he likes the crate and you do as well for safety, then cover it. He may be stressed out with the world passing by too quickly!!! Hope this helps. Also, for your leaving the house, the same thing. Your husband should commence an Obedience session with treats or a game of hide and seek the treat in the house- (this makes Kipawa work and gets his mind off your leaving-hopefully) Do not do the same thing you always do to exit the house. Leave for 1.5 seconds, then increase the time out of sight. He will in time learn that you always return. Sounds simple, and it may not work, but I have finally learned that my Uzie likes it better out of the crate if I am gone for any length of time-he came with severe separation anxiety, and still has some degree of it. TIME! Good Luck!!!!

Sorry, my post may have been a little confusing. Kipawa LOVES getting into the car. I just open the door and in he goes, happily. It's what happens seconds after I start the car - the whining and pacing.

As for leaving the house, I'm going to try your suggestion of mixing up things a little when I am leaving the home on my own. I'll do it quietly, not really talking to him. I'll leave for a couple of minutes and then come in, and when I do come in, I'll be very quiet as well.

Kipawa and I are very strongly bonded. Trying this will be hard, because he is around me ALL THE TIME, and I mean 'all the time'. If I am sitting somewhere in the house, and I get up and move, he will wake even from a dead sleep and follow me around. In addition to that (when he is not sleeping), as I move around the house, he always comes with me. There are rooms we don't let him in unsupervised (our bedroom) and he respects us saying DOOR and not trying to get in.

[Kipawa]

@lisastewart:

You can try using DAP to calm him when crated. I have used the spray to calm my whippet for travel. Most of them outgrow their separation anxiety with patience and training.

http://www.healthypets.com/ddogapph.html

Thank you to those of you who have suggested DAP. I was not aware of such a thing. It's certainly worth a try, along with modifying some of my OWN behaviors.

[Kipawa]

@DebraDownSouth:

I suspect ignore may be the best response as it seems more attention getting/protesting than real anxiety. For dogs, he's sort of entering the terrible 2s stage. Doing things to CALM him actually rewards the behaviors. Sure put a toy, high value treat in the crate, but not once the behaviors start as you are then rewarding him for the behaviors.

Debra, thank you. Ignoring makes sense - as you said, if we react then he is learning that this level of anxiety gets him attention. Back to the drawing board!

[Kipawa]

@Therese:

I will add that basenji pups Kipawa's age often go through what we lovingly refer to as "puppy spooks". Kipawa had a half brother years ago named Mojo that went through this. At the age of 10 months out of the blue he suddenly became terrified of his own shadow. We luckily were aware of this kind of thing and had learned to not react to the fear or try flooding him with what frightened him. We reassured him in a very matter of fact way and only slightly changed our approach it seemed to disappear on its own over the next couple months.
If this is a stage for like puppy spooks it usually hits our kids between 9-13 months at any given time and can be anything. Just unexplained and usually not seen before and usually not over anything new. Sounds like this may fit what he is doing.
I tend to agree with Debra, ignore may be your best bet.
Therese

Wow… interesting. Thanks Therese! I'll work on ignoring and also calm reassurance with him when necessary. I know if we have a late night walk where it is darker, he has been apprehensive about shadows.

[Kipawa]

@agilebasenji:

I like my DAP for this sort of stuff. Otherwise, you may want to get McConnell's booklet, I'll be Home Soon. As an extra bonus, tawzerdog.com has all books 1/2 off this month.

Thanks, I will have a look at the books. 1/2 off is a significant savings.

[Kipawa]

@renaultf1:

Oh, and one question…has the behavior started since he had the bad experience at the dog park or was it going on previously?

Well, actually yes, as far as his behavior in the car. Prior to 'the incident', he was displaying some anxiety actions in the car, but I would call them mild at the most. On the day of 'the incident', Kipawa was out of my vision for a few seconds, as the path we were on was curved, and he ran back to see the Weimeraner. So, I basically don't know whether or not the dog OR THE MAN did something to scare him. But we have been back there, and Kipawa plays happily with other dogs. I now only go to this park when I can tell there are two other cars at the most (there is only one way into and out of the park).

I am hoping what Therese said is what is going on. She is like an encyclopedia when it comes to knowing the physicality and minds of her dogs.

[Kipawa]

@lisastewart:

You can try using DAP to calm him when crated. I have used the spray to calm my whippet for travel. Most of them outgrow their separation anxiety with patience and training.

http://www.healthypets.com/ddogapph.html

Thanks - ordering this as we speak!

[nobarkus]

I walk Buddy when I get up in the am for about 30 minutes, then we eat breakfast and as I'm getting the kitchen clean and me ready to leave, he's curled up in the chair. When it's time to leave I just walk out and he could care less.

[Basenjimamma]

Fran,

the DAP really worked wonders on Otis when he was in the car..he had a slight case of anxiety, but the DAP would calm him down to the point that he could fall asleep, as supposed to pace and whine..I used the spray for him, would spray his bed in the crate or blanket and it seemed to work great.

On Pippi, nothing works…besides letting him be in teh car uncrated, he is in teh very back for the car with a barrier between us and him, he doesn't like it but settles down and sleeps after a while..if crated he screams the entire trip wether 20 min. or 4 hours..miserable and in my opinion, highly unsafe as it makes me a nervous nelly driver..

I know leaving a dog uncrated in the car is not good, but our options are nil...so that is how he travels.
Moses crates ok, and I could maybe leave Pippin in Moses crate with him, except Moses gets carsick and I rather wash one dog off than two..if you know what I mean.

[renaultf1]

Fran…if you go to comfort zone's website and sign up for their newsletter (in the Contact Us section), they send you coupons. I think it $15 off for the defuser and $5 and $10 off for refills. Quite a good deal. Also your vet may carry it - mine does and the refills are discounted there (marketed as D.A.P - not comfort zone - but still by Farnam).

http://www.petcomfortzone.com/

[Kipawa]

@renaultf1:

Fran…if you go to comfort zone's website and sign up for their newsletter (in the Contact Us section), they send you coupons. I think it $15 off for the defuser and $5 and $10 off for refills. Quite a good deal. Also your vet may carry it - mine does and the refills are discounted there (marketed as D.A.P - not comfort zone - but still by Farnam).

http://www.petcomfortzone.com/

Ack! I ordered already. Oh well, will sign up for the newsletter now.

[LindaH]

@Basenjimamma:

Fran,
I know leaving a dog uncrated in the car is not good, but our options are nil

Have you tried using a seat belt harness? That's how our dogs ride.

I agree with those who say that the best option is probably to ignore the behavior…trying to comfort an anxious dog only reenforces the idea that it's OK to be anxious.

We made that mistake with Maxx...both with riding in the car and with thunder. As a result, he was always a nervous rider, spending most of the time pacing back and forth (as much as the seat belt harness would allow) and was frightened of thunder.

This time, we're not making the same mistakes. Gracie has always been a good rider, spending it sleeping. Blaze is a good rider, too, although recently he's begun to stand and look out the window when we're driving around town, although he does lay down on longer trips. We ignore him when he stands (fortunately, no pacing). And the few times we've had thunder, we completely ignore it and don't say a word to the dogs. It's too early to tell how they'll be with thunder...haven't had much to test it yet. :rolleyes:

[Voodoo]

Pretty much all dogs go through a second period of fear around that age. Just ignore her or calm her down without reinforcing that behavior. Don't give in to her now. Those things are nothing special, so no reason for fear, so don't start petting her or when she does that.
Should be over pretty soon if you just ignore her.

[Kipawa]

@LindaH:

Have you tried using a seat belt harness? That's how our dogs ride.

Hi Linda, I tried that this morning, but boy is he a wiggle worm. I went through the whole process of getting ready for the car ride super calmly with no talking. But once we got in the car he was wiggling all over, right over to the driver's side (not safe). I only corrected him when he got in front of my field of vision.

Good thing the drive was not far. I got out of the car first, but he was right behind me, pulling to get me to start walking to the dike. Once there, I let him off leash, and he proceeded to run. He caught up with 2 ladies and their dog. Kipawa made friends with the big black dog, and went everywhere it did, which included going into a stinky slough.

He would not respond to me when I called him, so I really had to run to catch up to the ladies and him. Once I got him, the leash went on and we turned in the opposite direction to go home. Here is what I find interesting - lots of commotion on his part when we are going to a destination, but virtually NONE on the ride home. So, I'm thinking the anxiety is pure excitement of what will come. Once the walk is over, what's there to be excited about? Not much.

I'm going to try something - what do you all think? I'll get him in the car, open the garage door, leave the garage, back onto our driveway, and turn the engine off. Then after about 2 minutes, start the car, open the garage door, drive into the garage, turn off the engine and sit there for about 2 minutes. Then repeat and repeat. The goal is to get him calm for 10 minutes, sitting in a car that is going nowhere.

[Basenjimamma]

Originally Posted by LindaH
Have you tried using a seat belt harness? That's how our dogs ride.

I have tried them too..have one for each of my four dogs, but only two of them stay put in it, they other two, one whom is Pippin, wiggle their way out of it, even though I have it so tight it seems impossible..go figure.

[agilebasenji]

@Kipawa:

Hi Linda, I tried that this morning, but boy is he a wiggle worm. I went through the whole process of getting ready for the car ride super calmly with no talking. But once we got in the car he was wiggling all over, right over to the driver's side (not safe). I only corrected him when he got in front of my field of vision.

Good thing the drive was not far. I got out of the car first, but he was right behind me, pulling to get me to start walking to the dike. Once there, I let him off leash, and he proceeded to run. He caught up with 2 ladies and their dog. Kipawa made friends with the big black dog, and went everywhere it did, which included going into a stinky slough.

He would not respond to me when I called him, so I really had to run to catch up to the ladies and him. Once I got him, the leash went on and we turned in the opposite direction to go home. Here is what I find interesting - lots of commotion on his part when we are going to a destination, but virtually NONE on the ride home. So, I'm thinking the anxiety is pure excitement of what will come. Once the walk is over, what's there to be excited about? Not much.

I'm going to try something - what do you all think? I'll get him in the car, open the garage door, leave the garage, back onto our driveway, and turn the engine off. Then after about 2 minutes, start the car, open the garage door, drive into the garage, turn off the engine and sit there for about 2 minutes. Then repeat and repeat. The goal is to get him calm for 10 minutes, sitting in a car that is going nowhere.

oh, okay, I'll say it. Control Unleashed by McDivett or Click to Calm by Parsons ( i think). You CAN clicker train a calm behavior. google Relaxation Protocal by Dr Overall. You can do the steps with Kipawa on a mat in the house then start doing them in the car. Notice how the criteria gradually increases, but also ping-pongs. Easy, then harder, then easier, then harder. You can adapt this for riding in the car especially if you've done all 15 days in the house first. The dog should remain in a sit or down for each day's worth of exercises. You can also spray the mat with DAP if you feel the urge.

Also Calming Signals is good to have.

[Lysh]

i found Hope went through a similar stage. If my partner left the house she would whinge, if i left the house, she would whinge. Best thing we did was just ignore it and she got over it

A great thing to teach also is the word wait (or whatever you chose to use). When i go to get out of the car i usually might have my hands full etc or might even drop the lead by accident when i open the door. the best thing i ever taught my dog is wait. so she waits for me to get out and fix myself up and then shes only allowed out of that car when i say 'ok'. - i am one of those super paranoid people that ive seen peoples dogs just bolt out of the cars and head into traffic :| i just wanted to share this, you might already even do it

• btw … Hopes always super excited when i take her out in the car (i open the door and she jumps up into my car). She yawns alot on the way there and on the way home shes quiet and content.

Hope things improve for you and Kipawa

P.s maybe walk him on the lead til he shows calmed behavour even for half an hour or so and then let him off, might make him think? (just a suggestion :)) usually if i go down the beach i walk at least one way before letting Hope off the leash and all depending on her behaviour too, heck she might stay on the leash the whole walk - they soon learn