@jengosmonkey
LOL this is a really important convo to be having! I'm honored that it takes place on my thread 😆 and yes, I absolutely agree with the points y'all are making.
People do need to know where their pups are coming from and whether they were responsibly bred. To think of it coldly, I wouldn't buy a house without looking into its history and possible problems, or I might face ridiculous stress, expense, and emotional trauma from subsequent issues that come up later. As a consumer, one should do their homework not only on the breed but on the breeder.
A breeder who produces puppies carelessly is basically a horrible human being in my book. It was a huge, thoroughly thought out moral decision for me not to adopt but to buy a purebred puppy, as I've worked with rescues before. I took this step with the possible goal of being a custodian. If a breeder is irresponsible in all the aforementioned ways, not only are they producing dogs with a higher possibility of suffering, muddying this ancient breed, and swindling people, they are needlessly taking potential homes away from dogs that need one AND frequently causing dogs to be abandoned! If there weren't any PMs or BYBs, imagine how many people would get schooled by rescue folk and responsible breeders into taking dog-parenting seriously before they ever took one home!
Sorry for the rant; I COMPLETELY understand the internal screaming that happens within some of you when you find out a pup is from a mill or crap breeder. If people like you and I keep yelling about it, we will change a few minds, which make all the difference to a few dogs which is better than no dogs 🙂
Hello everyone,
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Welcome to the forum! Your pups look great!
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Hello and welcome to to the forum and good for you not giving up:D
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Welcome Donna
Your pack looks great! Thank you for hanging in their, too many B's get shoved aside because people don't take the time to understand them. I'm sure you'll have some great ideas to pass on to people here.Tom
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I had a basenji many years ago, so when I contacted B.R.A.T. the application alone is like a adopting a child…lol. But there were a few dogs there up for adoption, and another couple was there also looking to adopt. They were not very familiar with the breed and had children. Most people hear about the baseni as being barkless, and the catlike clean qualities, but along with that comes with "i'm smarter than you attitude" and they are a handful when first bringing one home. hahaha. But with guidelines from the first time they step thru your door, they are wonderful pets. I don't think I would ever own another breed. For me they are the perfect size, and you sure can't beat that crazy basenji personality.
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2 really are better than one.
Glad you worked through your issues.
Care to share them with us? -
just like spoiled children they would get into tear apart fights over me, usually. If one is on my lap and the other wanted to join us, the growling and nipping would start. Ziggee is laid back, great personality, he let this go for sometime, until one day he just growled back and snapped, before I knew it, they were ripping each other up. I just got a water delivery and got one of those 5 gallon jugs and dumped it on them… this did not break them up.... I went in there and got nailed a few times but got them apart. My house was like pyscho, blood splatters everywhere. I took the worse one first to the vet... and the crates were a staple again... although ziggee would always bust out. I have had both together now about 5 years, and thru those 5 years about 4 serious fights until I found a doggie shrink that knew the breed. The last time, was about 1500bucks for x-rays and stitches.... they were both a mess. I had to find a way to stop this, because for the most part we all got along great. We went on rides together, camping, walks...everything. These fights were not often but brutal enough everyone told me to get rid of one... I got nailed plenty too. My doctor bills are cheaper, I would gladly take the hit for either one, just to seperate them and calm them down. But all has been well the past year... once the eyeing each other and growling across the room starts, we have time out. I have chains in oposite sides of the room, they each get hooked up to thier corners, and I leave. Whether to take a shower, or run to the store... but when I get back before I unhook them they get a treat. Then together they both get praised. When I feel they need to be in time out, in a firm voice I say, "necklaces now!!" and they both go to thier designated corner and wait to get hooked up. They dont cry while they are there, they learned the rules. This works for us.
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Welcome.
It's wonderful to hear that you have taken the trouble to sort out their 'issues' which as you've obviously found out can be very serious. Years ago I was told that it's only really serious when they go for the throats!! I always think that good basenji owners are as determined as their dogs and find ways to sort out their problems.
I find it very heartening to hear of people like you. Thank you. -
holy cow!!!! The last time they had the death grip on each other.Each had a good chunk of neck, I have had ziggee since he was young and we have a bond. Scarlett was 3 when I got her, sooo I just went in there grabbed them and told ziggee to drop, oh he wasn't happy, both were livid and hell yeah my arms and hands got totally nailed. But I seperated them, Got scarlett in her crate, Ziggee was a bloody mess, she tore his ear. He got a few hits in and her front leg by the elbow, was a huge tore open wound. After the incident, they were both shaking and wounded, I am not sure if the 'retraining' with what I learned from the doggie shrink has helped or that incident really hit them both beyond where they wanted to go. But that was a huge expense, and nothing since then. I am going to look into pet insurance. lol And thanks for that, it really means alot when I find someone who understands about the breed. Scarlett was put into the rescue because she bit a new handler when she was sent out on a show. She was either to be adopted out or put to sleep….. sheeeesh she was only 3. I never had any issues with her and other dogs or people. She is very friendly. Those incidents with Ziggee, well the territorial thing and I didn't have control, they didn't think of me as the pack leader.... Now they do, well they are basenjis, so they let me think I do...lol
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oh, my heavens!
Its a wonder that these 2 b's are still living in the same house.re pet insurance, Consumer Reports says with all the deductions, your better off making
a saving account for pet issues and putting $$ into it each month. -
as I said, everyone I know said I should get rid of one, and obviously that would have been Scarlett, she already had a history of almost being put to sleep. It was the point of both of them biting me, which people were concerned…you know... "don't bite the hand that feeds you" But I got bit by blocking shots at the other dog, not that they were attacking me. Yes, for the most part, we all get along, and those incidents were waaaaay outta control. Its funny, when my dad "babysits" just one of them while the healing processes is going on, each one is looking for the other. whimper and running about.... they do need each other too.
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Yes, I think that 'dog biting person' does get that reaction but people often say it because they don't understand that it can be purely accidental and incidental when stopping a fight.
The same thing can happen and has happened to me when a dog is in pain because they have got limbs etc trapped and attack the person who is trying to release them. When it happened to me and I had to go to hospital to get stitched I wouldn't admit that it was a dog bite as in the present climate in the UKthe incident may get reported and have serious consequences for the dog.
It sounds as though your success is a combination of the doggie shrink's advice and your ability to learn from what you were advised. -
Welcome to the forum Donna, Ziggee and Scarlett look lovely Dogs
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Yes, I think that 'dog biting person' does get that reaction but people often say it because they don't understand that it can be purely accidental and incidental when stopping a fight.
The same thing can happen and has happened to me when a dog is in pain because they have got limbs etc trapped and attack the person who is trying to release them. When it happened to me and I had to go to hospital to get stitched I wouldn't admit that it was a dog bite as in the present climate in the UKthe incident may get reported and have serious consequences for the dog.
It sounds as though your success is a combination of the doggie shrink's advice and your ability to learn from what you were advised.Yes unfortunately here in NY also, a dog bite must be reported even under the circumstances and it was my own. One of the times, they hit a tendon and I needed to seek help for myself… but just the fact that watching these 2 animals I love dearly, rip at each other, I had to seriously learn the advice of our behaviorist. Some of the training was hard and tedious... but I was committed to 15minutes 3times a day. I had to become the pack leader, We don't follow all the rules, the one about not on the furniture, and no sleeping in bed.... they mostly lay on thier doggie beds anyways, but if I am on the sofa watching tv, I more than love the cuddling of my two basenjis.
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When breaking up a fight and using your "hands" "arms" it is pretty difficult NOT to get bitten… and they are not going after you per say, they are still going after the other dog.. you are just in the way.....
I too have been bit trying to break up fights.... one time I got my finger broken besides the deep cuts.... and a nick tendon... however.. while we too are suppose to report dog bites (or an ER Dr is).... I never have admitted to being bitten by a dog (as long as they are mine).... easy enough to make up a cover story... This was/is my personal decision.. as this was not a result of a dog just coming after me.... I just got in the way...
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A lot of water tossed on the dogs sometimes help.
A friend swears by tossing a blanket over the 2 dogs, so they are covered…
I think we all just want it to stop, and of course, we use our hands...
Sigh. It can sure hurt!! -
Water has never really worked for us - when they are focused on the fight, they somehow manage to forget how much they hate water. We usually wind up with wet, angry, bleeding (and still fighting!) Basenjis if they really are into it. The best way we've found is to have a really tall person carefully grab the less aggressive dog and hold him/her up out of reach of the other dog. Of course, this still risks being bitten, either by the dog being held up or by the one trying to reach the one being held. If they have collars on, it can sometimes work for one person to grab each dog's collar and pull them apart. We had a dog sitter once actually grab each dog's tail and pull them in opposite directions! We were amazed that she didn't get badly bitten by one or both!
Terry
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OMG that sounds horrible … but that being said you obviously seem to have the situation in control now.
Welcome to our pack BTW. -
Agree with you both - as you say its very hard to watch two dogs who you love dearly and not intervene.
Thankfully you have had such good advice from your behaviourist and followed it. I have a basenji here now that came back to me because of problems with a new baby (unplanned). His owner paid ?1000 to a behaviourist and then failed to follow his advice!! So the problems were not resolved.
The poor boy didn't understand why he was brought back and was so upset for a long time but thankfully has now settled well with his older brother and his sister. -
We had a dog sitter once actually grab each dog's tail and pull them in opposite directions! We were amazed that she didn't get badly bitten by one or both!
Terry
Interesting. In one of Patricia McConnell's books, I believe she recommends grabbing dogs by their hind legs to pull them apart…providing dumping water (or spraying a hose, if outside) or making a loud noise doesn't stop the fight. Now I would think that one would whip around and bite the person pulling at it, but it must work because they are focused forward toward each other.
To me, there is nothing worse than seeing dogs you love fight...and then try to break it up and get bit. The one time I've been bitten is by the one coming back at the one being held...when the fight happened I was pretty much 100% sure that I was going to get bit a couple of bites - sure enough, I got one bite that broke the skin and 2 that just bruised. At the time, I wasn't at all concerned about myself...I was concerned about what injuries there might be to the dogs.
I do wonder if using a squirt bottle right in their faces (say toward their nose/mouth) if that might work because of the element of surprise.
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well, if you have the time to be so accurate to spray right in their face and nose… have at it...lol I will take my chance and get bit, my hands and legs work pretty quickly to block a shot to the other dog. The water thing didn't work for me, and as I said, 5 gallons got dumped on both of them, in my case I had a tile floor, and it just made it harder to get a grip now with out slipping on all that water... that was really dumb on my part...lol
