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2009 Breeding Plans

Breeder Talk
  • E

    Two sets of puppies, how exhausting! I am curious to know what color puppies can result from this combo, tri & red.

    Will it be mostly reds, mostly tris, can there be any blacks or brindles?

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  • lvossL

    Since both of the red sires are tri factored there can be both reds and tris. It is 50:50 probability of each. Black and Brindle are dominant colors meaning one of the parents must be the color to get the color.

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  • tanzaT

    @EskiLovr:

    Two sets of puppies, how exhausting! I am curious to know what color puppies can result from this combo, tri & red.

    Will it be mostly reds, mostly tris, can there be any blacks or brindles?

    When I bred Maggii (Tri factor red to Tri Factor red) we got 3 reds, 3 tris, when I bred Fatia (Tri Factor red) to a Tri, I got 2 reds, 2 Tris, when Marilyn bred her Gabii (Tri factor red) to a Tri, she got 1 red, 5 Tris…

    And while I would love to have a Tri... the only way to be sure of that would have been to bred Tri to Tri.... so in the end, we get what we get...ggg

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • E

    Can you imagine TWO LITTERS worth of tri-ing pups though? Holy cow, that would be serious work, keeping them all out of mischief! I cannot imagine two litters worth of B's at all, let alone all tri's

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  • tanzaT

    @EskiLovr:

    Can you imagine TWO LITTERS worth of tri-ing pups though? Holy cow, that would be serious work, keeping them all out of mischief! I cannot imagine two litters worth of B's at all, let alone all tri's

    I would love it…..gggg

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • QuercusQ

    Are you whelping either litter at your house, Pat? or both?

    I am still on the fence about doing the litter I have been thinking about for years. I don't know if I can handle the extra work load!! I also have to finish Luna's testing…better get on the ball....

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • tanzaT

    @Quercus:

    Are you whelping either litter at your house, Pat? or both?

    I am still on the fence about doing the litter I have been thinking about for years. I don't know if I can handle the extra work load!! I also have to finish Luna's testing…better get on the ball....

    Parry will be whelping Kylie's litter and then I will take the pups at about 5wks to my house (we only live 10 miles apart)… Kacii's litter, it depends if she will whelp at Leighton's or my house, but then we are only 2 blocks apart... a lot with Leighton's depends on how Ken is doing as he is very ill.

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • S

    Should be lovely b's. I was lucky enough to meet the Leightons at the EBC specality.
    Sorry to hear Ken isn't doing well.
    I will send prayers his way.

    Sharron Hurlbut

    BRAT, basenji rescue

    Evergreen basenji club

    Seattle Purebred Dog Rescue

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  • K

    Hope everything goes smoothly Pat.

    Andrea, go for it. I'll just steal them from you when they get to be too much. :) The twins are not part of the deal though! lol

    Kelli Harmon

    Kiroja Basenjis

    Southgate, MI USA

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  • QuercusQ

    @kiroja:

    Hope everything goes smoothly Pat.

    Andrea, go for it. I'll just steal them from you when they get to be too much. :) The twins are not part of the deal though! lol

    Ha, Ha!!! Are you ssuuuurrree? The twins are pretty cute now! But puppies still *might be cuter! I will give the puppies to you when the poop starts getting tracked all over the place!

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • K

    Sounds like a plan! lol

    Hmm, you're right, it would probably be a toss-up. But I'll stick with the 4 legged variety, it's what I know best. :)

    Kelli Harmon

    Kiroja Basenjis

    Southgate, MI USA

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  • dmcartyD

    Thank you for taking the time to save some of the fine points of Jaadii - he was a wonderful dog with too much to offer the breed to not be used - I'm so glad that we have the fanconi test and can now do this.

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  • tanzaT

    @dmcarty:

    Thank you for taking the time to save some of the fine points of Jaadii - he was a wonderful dog with too much to offer the breed to not be used - I'm so glad that we have the fanconi test and can now do this.

    Thanks Dianne, that is what Parry and I thought too… He is the last of that line of breeding coming from Ken and Marilyn too, much to want to save in those lines... at least we think so... he goes back to some of my favorites. I am just glad that Parry had him collected and didn't toss the sperm when he started spilling.

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • A

    Hello,
    Our plan in this fall : http://www.freewebs.com/africanbasenji/litters.htm - choose after the tests… the sire will red-white, from USA. we waiting great show dogs from the litter...

    visit my site ![](images/smilies/rolleyes.png "Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)")

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  • nobarkusN

    What's the latest news on this Pat!

    Buddy, Paolo and Dan

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  • lvossL

    I hope the bed we sent home with Parry is helping to inspire Kylie that it is truly time to come into season.

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  • tanzaT

    Looks like this breeding will not happen after all.. at least we are 85% sure it will not… due to circumstances beyond our control

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • nomrbddgsN

    Sorry to hear that Pat. I know how it is to get your hopes up for a specific breeding and then get them dashed.

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • nobarkusN

    I'm sorry to hear that Pat. I was excited for you too.

    Buddy, Paolo and Dan

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  • renaultf1R

    That's too bad Pat, sorry to hear this. Will you try the same breeding again at another time?

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    @bigv said in When to consider breeding?: So Taylor.rene . A little bit about my findings over the last 30 years is that every person who breeds dogs calls them self a responsible breeder? "" Yes, and fortunately for about 20 year now, anyone who really wants to verify if the breeder is actually believable can do so. Some breeders have no problem with incest for the sake of a ribbon as (dogs aren't people )..It is all about titles not the betterment of the breed. Being involved with race horses..<< Gosh, where to begin. " Incest" is a morality terminology, applied as everything from just not parent/child and aunt or uncles/nieces and nephews....all the way to 2nd or even 3rd cousins. It has little to do with genetics, hence adopted children count, and everything to do with moral views. That said, the human race is far from universally avoiding what would be called close line breeding or even incest. Isolated communities ...either physically by geographic terrain or socially by groups such Ashkenazi Jews and Romani, have limited gene pools. Ashkenazi Jews, btw, joke we are all no further than 5th cousins, but it is nearly true. Dogs and animals have no such manmade morals. A common propensity for many mammals to not to mate with closely related animals has nothing to do with incest. In limited populations they will mate, and the problems that arise if it occurs too often are due to decreased gene, increased expression of harmful genes etc. In controlled breeding, line breeding, even close, can be used to find if there are harmful recessives, or bring out desired recessives. If you think it isn't done with livestock, including horses, you're mistaken. With knowledgeable breeders who keep up on genetics, it absolutely is for the betterment of the breed, not a ribbon... Yes I am not a fan of line breeding but it seems that every zoo in the world has a similar view as they are always swapping animals to improve the genes . ...<<<<< Again, absolutely nothing to do with incest. Zoo animals, even those of nonendangered species, have a serious issue with limited gene pools. The level of that limitation cannot be compared to most pet breeds. We aren't talking many thousands of individuals, or millions, but sometimes 100 or less. Stud books are kept, for example, on all the polar bears in zoos and the effort to keep the diversification as high as possible is serious. (I'll leave out my views on them being in zoos.) So sure, if dog breeders were faced with THAT level of limited gene pool, line breeding would probably be avoided as much as possible. However, that all ignores the fact that dogs in any breed are mostly related.. If you go back 10 or more generations, you find the same dogs heavily in most lines. Sometimes 2 dogs that aren't related 3 generations back may share more actual genes than a closely related dog who has a lot of breeding out of the line on one side. That's where knowledgeable breeders come in. Having studied dingos for the past 15 years I can say without dought a bitch won't mate with relative... They are similar to basenjis in many ways. ...<< That's nice that you've studied them. But researchers are making new discoveries based on actual observations and finding a lot of what they thought isn't true. With massive interbreeding with domestic dogs, the pure dingos are disappearing. I envy those of you able to see them. However researchers suspect they have ...>>During this a hitherto unknown form of the “pure” dingo was discovered (based on DNA and skull features): a white dog with orange spots on the fur. This variant was considered as a single mutation or the result of interbreeding with an isolated dingo population.<< So they don't rule it out. (I downloaded to read, over 100 pages but you might love it. I'll save for later! https://web.archive.org/details/http://www.invasiveanimals.com/downloads/Final-proceedings-with-cover.pdf ) And my boy does have a title that no other basenji has . He is the first and only basenji to be approved by the Victorian State Goverment to be authorised to hunt deer on private and public land within its borders. But to some this would make him unsuitable to breed with you figure?<<< First, while you have done an impressive job with you dogs, I am pretty sure that is a privilege given, not a "title," and I am 100% certain his being able to would have nothing to do with whether anyone deemed him not worthy of breeding to. With the right health checks, good conformation, etc, I would think a good plus...especially if the bitch owner wanted to possibly enhance hunting ability. It simply isn't enough.
  • nomrbddgsN

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  • T

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    Seems like the DNA sample would be easier to get too. :rolleyes: I guess the advantage of the sperm count is that you at least know if the sire is fertile or not. Good luck, can't wait to see pictures of the pups to be.
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  • tanzaT

    Tanza Breeding Plans

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    Well, while Lisa is enjoying her pups (and yes I am jealous…ggg)... We are still waiting for Mz Kylie to be bred, however today Baily was very insistent that he be able to spend time with her...gggg, so with any luck we will get a breeding today or tomorrow... if so we should be expecting at the end of January
  • S

    Interested in breeding

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    lvossL
    I got my first basenji about 8 1/2 years ago. I wanted a dog that I could try lure coursing and maybe agility with. I was not interested in showing but agreed to try a a match or two before making a final decision and getting him neutered. At first Nicky didn't really show much interest in lure coursing and I couldn't find any agility classes near me so I entered Nicky in a match. We had fun and I decided I would give showing a try. When Nicky turned about 20 months old he finally decided the lure looked like a whole lot of fun so we split our time between showing him and coursing him. Nicky finished his AKC and ASFA Field Championships fairly quickly and when he was about 2 1/2 years old we decided we wanted to get him a companion. When his breeder was a planning a litter with black and whites expected I told her that I wanted on the waiting list. Nicky was 3 years old when Rally joined the pack. Rally has always been an enthusiastic courser and had that elusive "show attitude" that Nicky lacked she became my first Champion. During this time I also became active in my local breed club and in rescue. I learned a lot about the history of the breed and about how many people get basenjis because they are attracted to its small size and "barklessness" without understanding about its intelligence, sense of humor, and ability to scream bloody murder when upset. It was a big decision to decide to breed Rally. Being a responsible breeder means being responsible for the pups you bring into this world for the rest of their lives and means breeding with the best interest of the breed at heart. I decided to co-breed a litter out of Rally with her breeder because I felt that Rally had a lot to offer the breed as a whole. She has a healthy pedigree that is not over-represented in the gene pool, she has a fabulous temperament that has charmed many a person, and she is a lovely example of a black and white basenji. It took a year of planning and some bumps in the road but in the end we had a nice litter of 4 pups. I am very proud of all my puppy owners for keeping their puppies active and participating in lure coursing with their dogs. We had really hoped for a black girl in Rally's first litter but she gave us a black boy and only red girls. So we started researching again and after nearly 2 years of planning we bred her to an Avongara. Please take time to read about the emergency c-section that we had to have when one of the pups was mispositioned. It was heartbreaking to lose one of the pups and so scary to think that we could have lost Rally. Breeding is a labor of love. There are so many things that can go wrong and so much screening to make sure the pups end up in homes that will cherish them forever and understand what it is to own a basenji. Basenjis are not for everyone and as much as I love the breed, I have seen many end up in homes that should never have had a basenji and some were homes that would be great for the right breed just not a basenji.