@patrick-brandon good ! I will reply when I get back from the woods. Glorious weather, mud drying up and Kito is taking to recall very well indeed. Of course, he has his half brother to set a good example 😍
Looking for a picture of
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Here is Erictee's One And Only Ersal
That is the only decent shot I have of those dogs you listed. But I have met all but Biff (can't remember what he called him) Sorry, I thought I had a couple more but maybe I can't find them. His dogs were never the intended target of the photography, just happened to sneak into a few shots. lol
But Eric is not the breeder of these puppies you're looking at. And from first glance at their website, a few things make me go hmmm.
Deciding on a good breeder to work with and get a show dog from is a process that takes time. Don't jump on the first cute picture you see.
Like Lisa said, the best thing is to visit the local shows, get with the breeders, and let them get to know you. Maybe they will be able to use your help and you can get your foot in the door. Sally Wournos and others come to mind.
I do know of a breeder in Michigan that has a tri bitch puppy that he is wanting a show home for. You can find his contact info on the BCOA breeder directory, his name is Chris Hershey. Again a great person, but I have no idea about his health testing. Do your homework.
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Most of the questions that you are asking are answered in the Screening Breeders page provided by the Basenji Club of America, http://www.basenji.org/learn/ScreeningBreeders.htm
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One more question.. If I got one of the puppies and then did all the health testing and it passes - would that puppy then be a breeding prospect?
and what health testing do you recommend?
Fanconi
hips
eyes
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Because we only have a DNA marker for Fanconi, the only way to know likelihod of a dog producing hip dysplasia, PRA, hypothyroidism, slipped patellas is to have the family history. So even if the puppy tested clear for hip dysplasia and normal eyed that wouldn't mean it would produce that. The only way to estimate risk is to know the family health history. Since PRA is late onset, 5 years or later, even if the puppy tested normal now it doesn't mean it won't develop it later.
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If you are looking for the foundation of a possible breeding program, there are no shortcuts and there really is no excuse to compromise on health. Breeders owe it to their future puppy buyers to only use the best dogs in a breeding program.
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so I would need to find a dog that has a full 4 generations that have all health testing done? Even the best pedigrees I have look at do not have all of this?
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so I would need to find a dog that has a full 4 generations that have all health testing done? Even the best pedigrees I have look at do not have all of this?
It would be nice to have that… and yes you most likely will not find it.. but you want to make sure that at least hips have been done and eye tests. You want to see how many siblings you can find that have tests done....
And really if you want to get into showing and maybe breeding, then you should find yourself a mentor... that will take you under their wing... teach you about the breed, pedigrees, importance of health testing...
From a responsible breeder you will have a hard time buying outright, IMO. I will not place a pup without co-ownership if they will not be spay/neutered. But then again, my price is no different for a show or pet and the contract is pretty straight forward with the requirements....
As far as if you got a show prospect are they a breeding prospect?.. Depends on the pup.. each needs to be evaluated at the time you want to breed as to "what do they have to offer the breed?"... Not only conformation, but health, temperament, etc.... Certainly Fanconi, Eyes, Hips, Elbows, Thyroid, Patellas should be tested...
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From a responsible breeder you will have a hard time buying outright, IMO. I will not place a pup without co-ownership if they will not be spay/neutered. But then again, my price is no different for a show or pet and the contract is pretty straight forward with the requirements….
and what is your price then?
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I find that the range quoted on the BCOA page is pretty accurate and at least in this area there is no difference for pet or show.
From Screening a Breeder Page:
How much do you charge for a puppy?
Basenji breeders in the U.S. charge between $800 and $1000 for a companion puppy on a spay/neuter contract. There can be legitimate reasons for charging more or less. However, a breeder who is selling companion puppies for significantly more or less in your geographic area should have good reasons for doing so. A breeder whose fee is significantly below market rate may be producing too many litters and needs to sell quickly. A breeder who sells at an inflated price may be seeking to line his/her pocketbook at your expense. -
Exactly as lvoss states… as prices are different depending on the part of the country, the range put in the Screening a Breeder is pretty right on...
Some breeders will price a show puppy higher... but that is not typical in No. California except for one breeder that I know of... -
brianpoppee,
Have you ever lived with a Basenji? -
The breeder I just got my show puppy girl from on the east coast doesn't charge any different for show .vs pet pups.
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so I would need to find a dog that has a full 4 generations that have all health testing done? Even the best pedigrees I have look at do not have all of this?
Something else to keep in mind is that not all health results are always recorded in the OFA database. So if you're researching dogs in the pedigree (and don't forget littermates of all those dogs!) you will probably need to contact some breeders and/or owners of those dogs. Things like CERF eye exams and thyroid panels can be done w/ acceptable testing procedures and results without paying the extra fee to submit to CERF/OFA. So the dog may in fact have results, just not listed publicly. You can still receive copies of the certificates and test results if you want verification. And in some health tests, if the dog did not receive a "passing" score, they may have been left unsubmitted on purpose so you don't see it. So you'll want to do some research.
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The breeder I just got my show puppy girl from on the east coast doesn't charge any different for show .vs pet pups.
I would love information on your pup, pedigree, breeders info
You can email me at brian poppee @ yahoo.com (put the address together with no spaces)I am looking forward to information.
Bri -
brianpoppee,
Have you ever lived with a Basenji?no, I have not at this point, but I am truely looking forward to it.
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The breeder I just got my show puppy girl from on the east coast doesn't charge any different for show .vs pet pups.
I didn't have to pay anything different for a show puppy either. She is co-owned with the breeder, which i believe is the norm in that case. If you haven't already, you may want to go visit some of the local breeders you are interested in, that may help them feel more comfortable with you and your interests in showing/breeding after you have had a visit. I had to take a few road trips to do that.
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Personally, and I really do mean for me PERSONALLY, so don't anybody get upset. I would be hesitant to buy from a breeder that WOULD sell me my first show/breeding potential Basenji outright. I mean, if she is going to sell me nice enough dog for a novice to finish, and possibly start a breeding program with…it is going to be a nice enough dog that she wants to keep some options for using it in her program in the future, AND have some control over how the dog is used for breeding in the future. She also may want to help the person purchasing her puppy through the process of becoming a responsible and successful showman/breeder and custodian of our breed.
It isn't like dogs are pieces of art, or rocking chairs, or ashtrays...you don't just make them and sell them to whomever has the money...there is a lot of responsiblity to place puppies in the right homes, and a responsible breeders take it seriously.
Each and every one of our our six dogs, and some of the others that have been placed in their forever homes are co-owned with their breeders; after over ten years being active in the breed. In my opinion it is a safeguard, and a benefit, rather than a drawback to owning the dogs.
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I didn't have to pay anything different for a show puppy either. She is co-owned with the breeder, which i believe is the norm in that case. If you haven't already, you may want to go visit some of the local breeders you are interested in, that may help them feel more comfortable with you and your interests in showing/breeding after you have had a visit. I had to take a few road trips to do that.
My puppy girl is co-owned as well. And yes, as Nemo says, definitely make some breeder visits.
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Personally, and I really do mean for me PERSONALLY, so don't anybody get upset. I would be hesitant to buy from a breeder that WOULD sell me my first show/breeding potential Basenji outright. I mean, if she is going to sell me nice enough dog for a novice to finish, and possibly start a breeding program with…it is going to be a nice enough dog that she wants to keep some options for using it in her program in the future, AND have some control over how the dog is used for breeding in the future. She also may want to help the person purchasing her puppy through the process of becoming a responsible and successful showman/breeder and custodian of our breed.
It isn't like dogs are pieces of art, or rocking chairs, or ashtrays...you don't just make them and sell them to whomever has the money...there is a lot of responsiblity to place puppies in the right homes, and a responsible breeders take it seriously.
Each and every one of our our six dogs, and some of the others that have been placed in their forever homes are co-owned with their breeders; after over ten years being active in the breed. In my opinion it is a safeguard, and a benefit, rather than a drawback to owning the dogs.
Really well put. And that is exactly how it has gone with my new pup, Aaliyah. She is co-owned by Eldorado and is still part of their showing/breeding program. If I don't do well for Liyah because I don't know what I'm doing showing wise, they will help out. Also, there may be some "bred by exhibitor" class showings that they want to do. Regarding breeding, I have no desire whatsoever to do that…I don't have the knowledge, or understanding at this point, and quite frankly the time to do all the necessary research/studying. Whether she will be used in their program is up to them as she gets older and they see what develops. I'm just starting to understand all the terms in the breed standard for showing purposes, so obviously how could I make breeding decisions.
To me it is a huge benefit that she is co-owned...it is a big responsibility (even the showing part) that I am not ready for on my own.
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Very well put Andrea….
And I agree, having a mentor in the breed is everything... Both my Mickii and Maggii were co-owned by their breeder for their entire lives.... I still co-own many of the ones that I bred, both as show dogs and as pets.... never been a problem....
