Breeding Plans

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  • KebasmomK

    Nemo, All of this was indeed discussed at the time I bought my puppy. I am showing her and she is co-owned by me and the breeder. The breeder will choose the stud and then take her pick when the litter is born. She has been great with guiding me when she can, and when she cannot, she has another person who has been a tremendous help to me. I am in no position at this time to choose studs or anything like that as I have just returned to the breed and showing in the last year so thank goodness for experienced reputable breeders!! I have no written contract. Everything is verbal.

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  • tanzaT

    I think that it is great that you have discussed all this with your breeder, Kebasmom.. but a word from the wise… you really want it written... even with a pet puppy with no "designs" for showing and breeding a contract is really an important thing... Not that it would or does solve all problems ... however it makes it very clear what each person (breeder and buyer) are thinking or expecting.

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • tanzaT

    @nomrbddgs:

    I really hope she goes today or tomorrow, but it doesn't look good. Temp hasn't dropped either.

    None of my bitches ever really followed the "temp" thing…gggg.... They read their own books... but I can tell you that once they start digging/nesting you are getting close, usually within 8 to 10 hours... at least that is what mine did..

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • nomrbddgsN

    I wish I even had that Pat! But nada, nothing, zilch, zero! Her temp was 97.7 down about 1 degree-which is nothing. Her mucus plug has not come out, she just lays around with the puppies rolling around inside.

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • NemoN

    I may regret this, but what is a mucus plug?

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  • bellabasenjiB

    The mucous plug is a collection of cervical mucus that seals the opening of the cervix. It keeps bacteria and infection from entering into the cervix, providing a protective barrier for the developing baby. When the mother looses the mucus plug it is a sign that it is nearing time for the labor to begin.:o

    _**Lisa Lynn ![](images/smilies/smile.png "Smile")

    BRAT Basenji Rescue, &

    Mid-Atlantic Basenji Club**_

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  • NemoN

    You know, it constantly amazes me how a BYB could even think to breed a litter of puppies. Maybe I just freak out too much about knowing what I'm doing before I do something. I guess they just figure out the bitch knows what to do and it will work itself out naturally. I don't know. But I definitely have a healthy respect for all of the responsible breeders out there.

    Connect with the Basenji Club of America on Facebook

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  • NemoN

    Oh, and I forgot to say that I hope the whelping goes smoothly. It sounds like the waiting must be excrutiating.

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  • K

    Fingers crossed Arlene! The waiting is such torture…

    Kelli Harmon

    Kiroja Basenjis

    Southgate, MI USA

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  • nomrbddgsN

    Hmmm, here it is morning of day 67 and first day of last breeding. Meaning, I bred her three times, two days apart each. This would make this 63 days from the last breeding. Since sperm is viable for up to three days after the breeding, the very last day should be Dec 31. All that happened yesterday was that she was upset she couldn't be with the other dogs, so she peed on the floor. I slept last night with feet in my face and groaning-not from DH, just from her! I hope she has them soon, only so much stinky butt and smelly feet I can stand!! (I'd rather smell puppy poo)

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • KebasmomK

    I have to agree with Nemo. I would not want to go through this kind of thing by myself the first couple of times. I'd want to volunteer to help an experienced breeder do this and then have some experienced hands with me the first time I went through it.
    Arlene, I hope you get some positive action today!! I look forward to hearing about it.

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  • nomrbddgsN

    I do have an experienced breeder standing by to help with whelping. Although I have bred terriers, this is my first Basenji breeding. I don't ever recall this much waiting with the terrier!

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • lvossL

    @nomrbddgs:

    Since sperm is viable for up to three days after the breeding, the very last day should be Dec 31.

    I hope that she doesn't make you wait that long, but fresh semen is viable longer than 3 days. Most of the reading I have done says around 7 days. Fresh chilled 2-3 days and the technology is improving. Frozen is only 12 hours.

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  • lvossL

    As for not waiting as long for terriers, their season aren't usually as long as a basenjis so you are not usually looking at such a long window. Rally almost always ovulated on day 10 of her heat, except the year of Sophie's litter. I drove down to Arizona when her progesterone started to look like it was rising but she backed off and waited a whole 'nother 10 days. Avongara Cole was very particular about when he would breed her so was about as good as a progesterone test in predicting when they pups were born. Nicky has also been as accurate as a progesterone test in letting us know when ovulation was. My mom's boy Levi would breed any girl in season ovulating or not.

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  • nomrbddgsN

    @lvoss:

    I hope that she doesn't make you wait that long, but fresh semen is viable longer than 3 days. Most of the reading I have done says around 7 days. Fresh chilled 2-3 days and the technology is improving. Frozen is only 12 hours.

    Crap! Now the window is even longer-now to Jan 4? I'll be on pins and needles-mostly needles by then!!

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • lvossL

    Well, probably it is Jan 1, since the 63 days counts from ovulation which usually occurs about 3 days prior to fertilization.

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  • nomrbddgsN

    Kero is very good at breeding also. He seems to know the time to breed. I am now at day 68 and nothing again. This is like pulling fingernails now! Although I seemed to be resigned she will go into labour at the most inappropriate time!

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • lvossL

    If she goes much longer you may want to do an x-ray just to be sure it isn't a very small litter. Sometimes 1-2 puppy litters can require a c-section because the puppies aren't crowded and can either get too big for a natural birth or just wait so long that their placentas start deteriorating.

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  • nomrbddgsN

    That was what I was worried about, but I did hear 3 distinct heartbeats yesterday. Her temp has now dropped to 96 and she's starting to act a little off. Not off enough to not eat, but just early stages. Should be within 24 hrs. I'll keep you updated.

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • snorky998S

    OMG!! I've been here just reading from the begining and I have to tell you I'm sooo excited for you!! I'm sure this will be the first thread I read when I get up in the morning, with mutiple checks in between before it's the last thing I check online before going to bed.

    Good luck, prayers, and happy thoughts being sent your way.

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  • taylor.rene.gT

    When to consider breeding?

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    @bigv said in When to consider breeding?: So Taylor.rene . A little bit about my findings over the last 30 years is that every person who breeds dogs calls them self a responsible breeder? "" Yes, and fortunately for about 20 year now, anyone who really wants to verify if the breeder is actually believable can do so. Some breeders have no problem with incest for the sake of a ribbon as (dogs aren't people )..It is all about titles not the betterment of the breed. Being involved with race horses..<< Gosh, where to begin. " Incest" is a morality terminology, applied as everything from just not parent/child and aunt or uncles/nieces and nephews....all the way to 2nd or even 3rd cousins. It has little to do with genetics, hence adopted children count, and everything to do with moral views. That said, the human race is far from universally avoiding what would be called close line breeding or even incest. Isolated communities ...either physically by geographic terrain or socially by groups such Ashkenazi Jews and Romani, have limited gene pools. Ashkenazi Jews, btw, joke we are all no further than 5th cousins, but it is nearly true. Dogs and animals have no such manmade morals. A common propensity for many mammals to not to mate with closely related animals has nothing to do with incest. In limited populations they will mate, and the problems that arise if it occurs too often are due to decreased gene, increased expression of harmful genes etc. In controlled breeding, line breeding, even close, can be used to find if there are harmful recessives, or bring out desired recessives. If you think it isn't done with livestock, including horses, you're mistaken. With knowledgeable breeders who keep up on genetics, it absolutely is for the betterment of the breed, not a ribbon... Yes I am not a fan of line breeding but it seems that every zoo in the world has a similar view as they are always swapping animals to improve the genes . ...<<<<< Again, absolutely nothing to do with incest. Zoo animals, even those of nonendangered species, have a serious issue with limited gene pools. The level of that limitation cannot be compared to most pet breeds. We aren't talking many thousands of individuals, or millions, but sometimes 100 or less. Stud books are kept, for example, on all the polar bears in zoos and the effort to keep the diversification as high as possible is serious. (I'll leave out my views on them being in zoos.) So sure, if dog breeders were faced with THAT level of limited gene pool, line breeding would probably be avoided as much as possible. However, that all ignores the fact that dogs in any breed are mostly related.. If you go back 10 or more generations, you find the same dogs heavily in most lines. Sometimes 2 dogs that aren't related 3 generations back may share more actual genes than a closely related dog who has a lot of breeding out of the line on one side. That's where knowledgeable breeders come in. Having studied dingos for the past 15 years I can say without dought a bitch won't mate with relative... They are similar to basenjis in many ways. ...<< That's nice that you've studied them. But researchers are making new discoveries based on actual observations and finding a lot of what they thought isn't true. With massive interbreeding with domestic dogs, the pure dingos are disappearing. I envy those of you able to see them. However researchers suspect they have ...>>During this a hitherto unknown form of the “pure” dingo was discovered (based on DNA and skull features): a white dog with orange spots on the fur. This variant was considered as a single mutation or the result of interbreeding with an isolated dingo population.<< So they don't rule it out. (I downloaded to read, over 100 pages but you might love it. I'll save for later! https://web.archive.org/details/http://www.invasiveanimals.com/downloads/Final-proceedings-with-cover.pdf ) And my boy does have a title that no other basenji has . He is the first and only basenji to be approved by the Victorian State Goverment to be authorised to hunt deer on private and public land within its borders. But to some this would make him unsuitable to breed with you figure?<<< First, while you have done an impressive job with you dogs, I am pretty sure that is a privilege given, not a "title," and I am 100% certain his being able to would have nothing to do with whether anyone deemed him not worthy of breeding to. With the right health checks, good conformation, etc, I would think a good plus...especially if the bitch owner wanted to possibly enhance hunting ability. It simply isn't enough.
  • T

    Planned Breeding at Illusion

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    NemoN
    Seems like the DNA sample would be easier to get too. :rolleyes: I guess the advantage of the sperm count is that you at least know if the sire is fertile or not. Good luck, can't wait to see pictures of the pups to be.
  • diff_eqsD

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    diff_eqsD
    Thanks everyone who has shared their knowledge and opinions on the matter! I got all the tests done, just waiting for the results from the OFA. Say all the results are good/clear/negative/etc. I already spoke to a couple breeders, so I have a couple of potential studs picked out. What are some of the other steps involved, i.e. registering the litter, etc.?
  • tanzaT

    2009 Breeding Plans

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    tanzaT
    We will have puppies in the house… but just not born here..gggg.... but thanks for the kind words....
  • lvossL

    Kinetic Breeding Plans

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    Based solely on these photos, I would rank Bella and Dean the highest but Clark and Flash are certainly not far behind. This is a fabulous litter. I love them all.
  • S

    Interested in breeding

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    lvossL
    I got my first basenji about 8 1/2 years ago. I wanted a dog that I could try lure coursing and maybe agility with. I was not interested in showing but agreed to try a a match or two before making a final decision and getting him neutered. At first Nicky didn't really show much interest in lure coursing and I couldn't find any agility classes near me so I entered Nicky in a match. We had fun and I decided I would give showing a try. When Nicky turned about 20 months old he finally decided the lure looked like a whole lot of fun so we split our time between showing him and coursing him. Nicky finished his AKC and ASFA Field Championships fairly quickly and when he was about 2 1/2 years old we decided we wanted to get him a companion. When his breeder was a planning a litter with black and whites expected I told her that I wanted on the waiting list. Nicky was 3 years old when Rally joined the pack. Rally has always been an enthusiastic courser and had that elusive "show attitude" that Nicky lacked she became my first Champion. During this time I also became active in my local breed club and in rescue. I learned a lot about the history of the breed and about how many people get basenjis because they are attracted to its small size and "barklessness" without understanding about its intelligence, sense of humor, and ability to scream bloody murder when upset. It was a big decision to decide to breed Rally. Being a responsible breeder means being responsible for the pups you bring into this world for the rest of their lives and means breeding with the best interest of the breed at heart. I decided to co-breed a litter out of Rally with her breeder because I felt that Rally had a lot to offer the breed as a whole. She has a healthy pedigree that is not over-represented in the gene pool, she has a fabulous temperament that has charmed many a person, and she is a lovely example of a black and white basenji. It took a year of planning and some bumps in the road but in the end we had a nice litter of 4 pups. I am very proud of all my puppy owners for keeping their puppies active and participating in lure coursing with their dogs. We had really hoped for a black girl in Rally's first litter but she gave us a black boy and only red girls. So we started researching again and after nearly 2 years of planning we bred her to an Avongara. Please take time to read about the emergency c-section that we had to have when one of the pups was mispositioned. It was heartbreaking to lose one of the pups and so scary to think that we could have lost Rally. Breeding is a labor of love. There are so many things that can go wrong and so much screening to make sure the pups end up in homes that will cherish them forever and understand what it is to own a basenji. Basenjis are not for everyone and as much as I love the breed, I have seen many end up in homes that should never have had a basenji and some were homes that would be great for the right breed just not a basenji.