Okay so I found this girl for sale today and wanted to know if you could give me your opinion again… She's Fanconi clear because her parents are... she's born 12-12-07
Her parents are...
Ch Eldorados Olivier
Am Ch Visit-To-Sisco Out of Africa
From what I can see from the picture…Comparing her to Jazz... I like her front assembly better (but I don't know if it's because she's stacked better), it has a good lay back...Hindquarts and tail set look good (look alot like Jazz's)...Good topline and neck...I also think she has a better transition then Jazz does from her topline to her neck...I love her tight little feet, so much better then Jazz's...She also has a shorter back...and she doesn't seem to have to much white like Jazz...She looks to have pigeon toes in the picture...I love the width of her chest to...Her head peice looks Balanced as wel... She has a good shelf... I can just make out the wrinkles on her head, but it's hard because of her color...
Any brutal option is welcome... I'd like to show her, and Like to know also if she's better then Jazz in Quality... Again I know it's hard from pictures and also because Jazz is a year younger them her but hey...
The only thing I notice immediately that would be a fault are her amber/light eyes…more experienced people will chime in I'm sure on the rest of her structure.
I think she needs a lot of time to develope, allthough I guess she stays a bit more elegant then I prefer according to the dogs on her mothersside. I dont like her front legs and I am not fond of her head either. her front looks ok, as well as her bottocks and her topline. I think when you want a top show dog you should look further, but that is my opinion, maybe with a great handler you can get far with her, I dont know.
Okay, pic aside, I will let you know later. You have to ask yourself a few questions here. Who owns her and why have they not shown her to her CH before now? She should have been finished by now. She'll be two this year.
If you're looking for a learner dog, I'd stick with Jazz. You already own her and have not put any money out looking for a better show dog. From what I can see I don't like her ear set. She has better ears than Jazz, but I find the ear set too far down the head. It may be just the pics, but I don't think so. Her wrinkle should have a diamond in the middle. It just says that her wrinkle is more correct with a diamond. Her eyes are light also, but most judges don't look that close anymore. But again, if you're looking for a show dog you want the best you can get. Muzzle length seems better on this one.
Front assembly-I don't like the concave look it's pretty high. While time may change it, I still think it's pretty high. Again, you have white on the elbow which may give an illusion of throwing those elbows out. Personally, I think she's shorter in the upper arm than Jazz which will make her windmill more. I don't like her feet. While I know you think they are tight(and it may be the pictures) I find they are splayed too far. This is something you really have to watch for IMO. There are a lot of dogs coming out with this big dinnerplate sized feet. These dogs don't need large feet like a lab for swimming, they need small tight feet for running through sand and forest. Remember what these dogs do in the jungle and savannah and you will start to do the comparisons yourself. I also have a problem when a dog stands with their feet in the exact same position all the time. You have three different pics, all with her feet looking like their are placed in the same position.
I do like her topline but I'm on the fence about the tailset. I don't know why, I just think something is 'off'. I like her back end better than her front end, but I'd like to see a butt end view.
Sorry I'm so negative. But, you already own Jazz and for you to consider another dog with a similar amount of issues-as I said why waste your money? I would wait a bit and start to show Jazz before you get another dog. Why? Because you will learn sooooo much from showing Jazz. You are already learning so much from our picking apart our other dogs here and showing you what is correct and what isn't.
Please don't think I'm being too hard. It's better to start a little slower and move up than to jump on a bunch of different dogs trying to show one that 'might' be good enough. I know it's hard waiting, but it's worth it in the end.
As i b n sane stated, if you want a top show dog and are determined for one right now, look further. You'll want a younger dog, definitely, with a lot less white. That's not to say that this dog has not been shown, but if you are considering showing her, I'm just assuming she hasn't been shown to her CH yet.
I will tell you a short story here re the age thing. I had a friend who decided to get an 18 mo bitch. She ended up to be terrified in the ring and not very showable and she was ultimately returned to the breeder. She never relaxed enough to have fun. It's not something I would recommend. I know other people and many long time breeders may have a different opinion, but seeing what I saw with that dog, I just wouldn't want to put that much time and effort in to it. You want to have fun in the ring, and you just can't do it with a stressed out dog.
This is just MO
I have to agree with what Arlene said about sticking with Jazz as you already own her. If you are new to showing like I am, you'll learn a ton with the girl you already have. Not to mention, what if you decide you don't like it or don't have the time to put to it. And, by adding another girl into your home you might be in for an eye opener - usually male/female combos are the easiest.
Just my .02.
.02? Ohhh it's gone up since my day! Just an add on, even the top Basenji in Canada and the US are not without their problems. Just that the owners/handlers have learned how to hide it!
Ha, ha - 2 cents, you know. That brings up another good point. As a new handler, in my case, no matter how good my puppy might look, because I don't really know what I'm doing, I definitely don't do her justice with my handling, nor do I bring out her best or hide her worst. Handling skill makes a huge difference and that is a learning process you can work on with Jazz.
I think you should stick to Jazz too. I personally think Jazz appeals more than this one. I do not like this ones front at all, she toes in very obviously with both front feet and that will throw off her movement.
I think you should just have some fun showing Jazz and then maybe look in a year or so for a nice quality pup. I would also be cautious of why the current owner is selling her…
I think you should stick to Jazz too. I personally think Jazz appeals more than this one. I do not like this ones front at all, she toes in very obviously with both front feet and that will throw off her movement.
I think you should just have some fun showing Jazz and then maybe look in a year or so for a nice quality pup. I would also be cautious of why the current owner is selling her…
Ditto….and I don't care for the shape and color of her eyes. Not to mention, bringing and adult bitch into your house, with a yearling bitch might be a blood bath....
I'm actually not put off by the color of the eyes. They change so much with different camera's, angles, and lighting, compared to what they'd look like in person. I've also noticed that several of the dogs I've seen that are higher percent recent import have fairly light eyes, compared to the rest.
I'm actually not put off by the color of the eyes. They change so much with different camera's, angles, and lighting, compared to what they'd look like in person. I've also noticed that several of the dogs I've seen that are higher percent recent import have fairly light eyes, compared to the rest.
True, but we are talking about a show dog, for a first time exhibitor…light eyes will definitely hurt a dog in the ring.
See that confuses me. Why should a trait that shows up in the native stock hurt a dog in the ring where we're supposed to award the dogs that best fit the standard for what they should be. Shouldn't they be close to the natural selection dogs (native stock)?
My opinion is much, much different then yours….
In looking at this bitch, she will be 2 in December, so what you see is mostly what you get. I disagree with your comment about lay back of shoulder, I think she is very straight, she is long in the back (compared to what the standard says, square) tail set is pretty good, but she is light in body structure all over. She does have nice feet, however she is what I would call chicken chested and she is pigeon toed (toes point towards each other).. and IMO that will not change. I think her neck is a bit short and I don't like the way it joins into the shoulders. I agree with Andrea about the light eyes. And I think that your Jazz's rear is pretty much the same as this bitch with the exception that IMO, Jazz's tail set is too low, this bitch is a bit better.
As it has already been said, there is no perfect dog... that is why we breed and why we have "chocolate and vanilla"... there are different things that some like or do not like. I have a thing for heads... and can't stand long ears... even the standard says small, erect, hooded ears and they are supposed to be set high on the head, not lopped off to the side... Here IMO is one of the nicest examples of head type for a bitch... and yes, she is mine.
Picture was taken at about 1yr old so she had not developed any cushion on the cheek/jaws yet.
http://www.tanzabasenjis.net/files/FATIA_HEAD_SHOT__Cropped_.jpg
One other thing, there is no such thing with Fanconi as Clear by parents, since this is a linkage test. I would still if you are considering this bitch make sure she is tested first.
See that confuses me. Why should a trait that shows up in the native stock hurt a dog in the ring where we're supposed to award the dogs that best fit the standard for what they should be. Shouldn't they be close to the natural selection dogs (native stock)?
I don't agree that the native stock all have light eyes, some do.. most have pretty decent eye color. The new group that was just admitted all have a pretty decent eye color and wonderful shape. What I find we are losing is the almond shape… the eyes are too round.
I read the whole thread and thought rather than add to the already pretty detailed comments about the girl in question, I would instead ask, why are looking for another show dog when you haven't yet given it a try with Jazz?
I really think that getting out there and showing Jazz will give you a much better perspective of what you want in your next show dog. You are going to face challenges no matter who your starting dog is. There is no perfect dog and when you are learning I think having a dog that you have a good bond with and is willing to work with you is probably one of the most important traits. You need a dog that is going to forgive you when you say one thing and then immediately change your mind as you realize you are in the wrong place.
As you start attending shows, you will learn how to present your dog but you will also get to see other dogs and talk with other exhibitors. This will help you to decide what traits you really want in your next show dog. You will also probably start to find lines that you like and that will give you a starting point for looking for your next show dog.
Regardless of how she looks - the fact is that having 2 bitches together is frequently a disaster - it will work until it doesn't.
In a young puppy standing toeing out is not so bad because as they develop they will have more spring of rib and the feet will correct to front. Toeing in this badly at 2 will only get worse - judges that are hard core sighthound judges will put her to the end of the line with that much toeing in. (Pat Craig Trotter comes to mind)
I like the neck shape better on this one - but again from the picture we are looking at just parts - how the dog uses what they have is the main thing and we can't tell that from a picture.
Take your bitch out - learn what it's all about so that when you develope an eye not for what is available but for some lines that you like - you can find a nice male to join your house.
