I don't know if you feed your dog before you walk him, but if you don't, you might find walking him first early morning, after waking up will take care of this issue. My boy basenji won't even eat until he has "done" his business.
Same in the afternoon. Walks will empty them and make them hungery.
Well, so much for drugs…..
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Certainly I have never used one, of course this is the first I ever saw one, but I would be very, very surprised if it worked…. IMO...
When Senji was a puppy, he was a lot calmer when he had his sweater on. It had holes for his front legs and a velcro closure along the back. I think he felt very "snuggly" and secure in it. I could tell that he was a lot more rambunctious when he wasn't wearing it.
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I have been to many dog behavior classes…and they do say Anxiety Wrap does work...well, the price of an ace bandage is cheap, so, why not try it?
Another suggestion is to put the crate by the bed, so the dog will be able to know your with him...
When the dog gets stressed..you can put your hands in the bars, and sooth him..
We have done that with rescue dogs who couldn't be on the bed with our b's. -
Well, we saw the behaviorist today. It was interesting. She said a lot of things that I think I already knew deep inside. Essentially, I have a dog with a bio-chemical problem – he was born with it, he'll die with it, and we have to work on teaching him how to live with it.
We've started on a two-week rehabilitation process, which is essentially hands-off. The idea is for Keoki to learn that he will live even if his people are not constantly with him. It's a problem he was born with,and our lifestyle {stay-at-home, homeschooling} hasn't exactly helped him, LOL, as he never experiences life without his people. And my coddling him at bedtime surely hasn't helped to convince him that he can survive a moment w/out his people.
I am to call her in the AM to let her know how the evening went, and every morning thereafter. After the two week period has passed, she will re-evaluate him, note changes and begin the behavior modification training.
Everything she said made such perfect sense, ever observation she made was dead-on.
We agreed that rehabilitation will be easier for him and for us if we are not dealing with hormone surges, so I've decided not to show him anymore but to have him neutered. The shows were just for fun, and it's more important that we work him toward health.
I was really surprised by his behavior in the center. He was so fearful, literally glued to my and/or my daughter's legs, even when she tossed beef tendons {HIGH reward for Keoki!}, he wouldn't venture out to grab it; backing away and growling when she walked briskly AWAY from us.
He was a different dog away from home.One bright spot -- she's technically retired from this business and usually will evaluate dogs that the vet recommends to her {she is currently the administrator of the vet hospital and training center} and refer them out to whichever trainer she feels will work best for that dog/family.
After our visit today, she decided that she's interested in Keoki and his progress and is going to do his treatment as a courtesy! WOW!!! I wanted to fall over. I've got to send her flowers or something!Anyway, we've gotten a good start on helping Keoki become healthy. I feel very good about our meeting today, the current plan of attack, and am very optimistic!
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That's wonderful, JM. It sounds like you found yourself a gem. I'm sure Keoki will come around. I'll keep good thoughts for all, please keep us posted on how it all goes. ((Hugs))
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Oh, I would also be interested in the training process as well and how it goes, including Keoki's and your progress and feelings towards what's going on and the observation's you make!
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I've been reading your story but had no input for you, but am soooooo glad things are getting better. Good luck….. keep us posted.
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Me too... please if you would post on the Forum... sounds like something many, many of us would be interested in....
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Okay, here's a explanatory paragraph I found on a website –
In severe cases the owner may also have to take steps to weaken the dog's dependency upon a person. This requires the owner to ignore the dog for a period of time, sometimes up to three weeks (Flannigan, Personal comm.). This will not break the bond between owner and dog but it will decrease the dog's extreme dependency and allow it to tolerate its owner¹s absence without anxiety (Machum 1991). Ignoring your favourite pet may be difficult but it is important to keep in mind that a much more healthy and happy relationship will result.
Keoki's separation anxiety may be exacerbated by the fact that we are a homeschooling family. Every moment of his day/week is filled with his people – there are a lot of us, and just about any room he goes into, will have a person in it, LOL -- so he seems just fine most of the time. The problems get very bad when we do have to leave him, which is typically only twice a week. The dogs are alone {together} on Saturdays for a few hours, and on Sundays for a few hours in the morning. Weekends are a bad time for him, and weekend nights seem to find him more anxious than ever when it comes to bedtime. It's as if the fact that we can leave actually hits him the face and he becomes afraid we're going to do it again.
Now, he has slept well the last two nights in the ex-pen, but Saturday is coming. I am not confident that he will sleep this weekend, as his pattern has been to have a really tough time Saturday through Monday nights.
Anyway, I think the fact that he SO identifies with us as a part of him in that way, is why the behaviorist is taking such a drastic step with him.
That said, Bryan has a different perspective so now I am trying to consolidate BOTH their opinions and figure out what to do!
No easy task since we can't all sit down together and am operating on a "he says, but she says" email/telephone system.sigh, I just want to do what is best for the dog, kwim. Why can't it all be easy?
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Okay, here's a explanatory paragraph I found on a website –
In severe cases the owner may also have to take steps to weaken the dog's dependency upon a person. This requires the owner to ignore the dog for a period of time, sometimes up to three weeks (Flannigan, Personal comm.). This will not break the bond between owner and dog but it will decrease the dog's extreme dependency and allow it to tolerate its owner¹s absence without anxiety (Machum 1991). Ignoring your favourite pet may be difficult but it is important to keep in mind that a much more healthy and happy relationship will result.
Keoki's separation anxiety may be exacerbated by the fact that we are a homeschooling family. Every moment of his day/week is filled with his people – there are a lot of us, and just about any room he goes into, will have a person in it, LOL -- so he seems just fine most of the time. The problems get very bad when we do have to leave him, which is typically only twice a week. The dogs are alone {together} on Saturdays for a few hours, and on Sundays for a few hours in the morning. Weekends are a bad time for him, and weekend nights seem to find him more anxious than ever when it comes to bedtime. It's as if the fact that we can leave actually hits him the face and he becomes afraid we're going to do it again.
Now, he has slept well the last two nights in the ex-pen, but Saturday is coming. I am not confident that he will sleep this weekend, as his pattern has been to have a really tough time Saturday through Monday nights.
Anyway, I think the fact that he SO identifies with us as a part of him in that way, is why the behaviorist is taking such a drastic step with him.
That said, Bryan has a different perspective so now I am trying to consolidate BOTH their opinions and figure out what to do!
No easy task since we can't all sit down together and am operating on a "he says, but she says" email/telephone system.sigh, I just want to do what is best for the dog, kwim. Why can't it all be easy?
I have to say, I think I would try the behaviorist method… It make sense to me.... I think it would be hard to try and combine two different peoples ideas... instead of just sticking to one...
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Wishing you lots of luck. You are a great mommy for doing all you can to help keoki with his seperation issues. On a positive note, I am glad to know you are receiving what seems to be great help and at least this is something that hopefully within time may get better wihtout the use of meds that made him so dopey. Look forward to hearing about your progress.
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When I went to an animal behaviorist at UC Davis here in CA to try to get help for Max, she told me that basenjis were her most difficult separation anxiety patients to deal with. Fortunately, his case was pretty mild. I think any info you post here on your experience will be very helpful for a lot of people. Thank you for "forum schooling" us in addition to your "home schooling"
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When we first got She-Ra, the first time we had to leave her alone (just to get some pet food and toys) our neighbor stopped by and said he thought he heard a kid screaming or something in the house. So we introduced him to the dog, and asked him to let us know if he hears anything else.
To date, no reports…she's pretty much figured just because Mom and Dad go out it doesn't mean they're not coming back...and when they do it's usually with something for her!
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To date, no reports…she's pretty much figured just because Mom and Dad go out it doesn't mean they're not coming back...and when they do it's usually with something for her!
If only Keoki would catch on to that!
Gypsy and Jazzy BOTH know when they see me come home with lots of bags {I only shop twice a month for a family of 8, so it's a lot of bags!}, that at least ONE of them has goodies in it for them.
Of course, neither of them care when we leave either. Jazzy settled down w/in a few weeks, and I was able to return home to a clean crate and a calm dog.
Keoki still hasn't caught on, and we've been working on it since April!He was a bit older when we got him – he was a full 3 mos old; Jazz was maybe 9 or 10 weeks -- and I wonder if that longer time w/his siblings didn't make the difference. {? just a thought}
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I have to say, I think I would try the behaviorist method… It make sense to me.... I think it would be hard to try and combine two different peoples ideas... instead of just sticking to one...
Just, FTR…Pat and I usually agree on most things
but the suggestion to completely ignore the dog for an extended period of time makes me uncomfortable. We have to work really hard with Basenjis to keep that bond in place that keeps them from becoming *completely wild dogs...I would hesitate to do anything that would try to weaken the bond; or turn a separation anxiety problem into a fear/trust problem.That being said, I really hope this works for Keoki, and I am really anxious to hear how the progress is coming
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If only Keoki would catch on to that!
Gypsy and Jazzy BOTH know when they see me come home with lots of bags {I only shop twice a month for a family of 8, so it's a lot of bags!}, that at least ONE of them has goodies in it for them.
Of course, neither of them care when we leave either. Jazzy settled down w/in a few weeks, and I was able to return home to a clean crate and a calm dog.
Keoki still hasn't caught on, and we've been working on it since April!He was a bit older when we got him – he was a full 3 mos old; Jazz was maybe 9 or 10 weeks -- and I wonder if that longer time w/his siblings didn't make the difference. {? just a thought}
So, does the entire family ever leave for several hours?
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Just, FTR…Pat and I usually agree on most things
but the suggestion to completely ignore the dog for an extended period of time makes me uncomfortable. We have to work really hard with Basenjis to keep that bond in place that keeps them from becoming *completely wild dogs...I would hesitate to do anything that would try to weaken the bond; or turn a separation anxiety problem into a fear/trust problem.That being said, I really hope this works for Keoki, and I am really anxious to hear how the progress is coming
yes we usually do, Andrea.. and you make valid points. I guess it would depend on "how" long extended period of time really is….If I relate this to my own dogs, while they love to be with us, they have no problem going off on their own to nap in the sun, look for squirrels, etc... they don't demand that they are under foot 24/7. And when we go out (mind you that we both work so they are used to use us being gone for a good part of the day)... it is never a problem. Of course too, I don't crate them when we are gone, so that makes a big difference too. Funny however if we go out to dinner or are going 1/2 hr or so, when we get back you might think we have been gone for days....
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yes we usually do, Andrea.. and you make valid points. I guess it would depend on "how" long extended period of time really is….If I relate this to my own dogs, while they love to be with us, they have no problem going off on their own to nap in the sun, look for squirrels, etc... they don't demand that they are under foot 24/7. And when we go out (mind you that we both work so they are used to use us being gone for a good part of the day)... it is never a problem. Of course too, I don't crate them when we are gone, so that makes a big difference too. Funny however if we go out to dinner or are going 1/2 hr or so, when we get back you might think we have been gone for days....
Right, I think weeks is too long…but probably it HAS to be that long for the dog to realize NOTHING he does is going to get the humans to give him attention. And I bet there will some REALLY interesting behaviors tried out to get attention....<shudder>
Querk is EXACTLY like Keoki...always has been. But I don't classify it as true Separation Anxiety because it is ONLY associated with a crate. I would first try to find out if the dog truly has "separation anxiety" or "crate anxiety" (for lack of a better term)....because I can't see how withholding attention from a dog in all situations could make him feel better about his crate.</shudder>
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So, does the entire family ever leave for several hours?
Yes, but for the most part only on weekends.
Seasonally, the kids play either basketball or soccer, and during those times the entire family is gone from about 8:30 AM until 1 or 2 PM {it's soccer season now}.
And on Sundays, we go to Mass and Sunday School so are gone typically from 9 AM - 12:30 - 1:00 PM.That's really about it, aside from the occasional special event.
To be honest, Keoki's behavior really began spiraling downhill QUICKLY in last August.
He'd had problems with being left home {always with the other dogs} and sleeping in his crate from the beginning. We'd worked through the summer with short periods in the crate, treats in the crate, feeding in the crate, making the crate comfy, etc. and had gotten him to at least sleep a few hours at night {if and only if he was "eased" into relaxing there}.
He had finally stopped {almost} shredding his night-time pillows.He NEVER came around to having us leave the house w/out returning to a completely destroyed crate, still occasionally urinating in it, etc.
In August most of the family took two short trips, one week gone, home one week, one week gone, home for good. The dogs were left home because our oldest two kids had to work and couldn't come along. They are 18 and 20 yrs old, and quite accustomed the the care and treatment of the dogs.
During those two weeks that we were gone, the dogs were crated at night AND when BOTH kids had to work. Neither of them worked all day every day, their schedules were varied, so the dogs weren't left alone 40 hours a week, but it was far more than they were accustomed to.Gypsy and Jazzy couldn't have been less affected.
Keoki crumbled.
Since that time he won't crate at. He lost what little ground we'd gained and wasn't sleeping all at night. If I remained near the crate, he'd sleep in fits. When he would settle in to sleep, he'd quietly whine the whole time until he'd drift off, but would start awake if I made the slightest movement and if I got caught moving toward the door all hell would break loose.I've tried leaving him in our "mudroom" uncrated when we left home, with Jazzy in her crate {she loves her crate, and I was concerned of them fighting}. His crate was in the room, and open. He had toys and a chewy. The evidence was that he still freaked out – paper toweling in crate was shredded and everywhere. He was agitated and whimpering when we came in, etc.
Last week he started NOT sleeping AT ALL. Digging at the crate {front and back}, shredding wildly, screaming even when I was in the room w/him.
THAT is the point at which I ran to the vet for help!
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