Let me in or I'll poop

Basenji Training
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  • luzmery928L

    yeah that sounds right, now what about being left in the crate without any toys, bed, blankets, etc?

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  • gbroxonG

    I've only heard of citrus collars that are used to control barking; the barking sets off the shot of citrus. Are there ones that can be remote-controlled? In other words, how does the nipping set off the citrus blast?

    I'm not sure of his reasoning in leaving the pup in a bare crate. Did he explain why he thought it was a good idea?

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  • luzmery928L

    No. I will ask him but I'm not sure a bare crate will help. How will he want to be inside if I don't keep him comfortable. The collar is remote control

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  • QuercusQ

    I would say that if you aren't comfortable with the advice the trainer gave you, then find another trainer.

    My guess is that he suggested a bare crate because if the dog urinates in it, he will have to sit in it. Personally, I don't crate train that way. My experience has been that for a while, some puppies urinate in their crate…eventually they grow out of it. But I am very tolerant for cleaning up puppy pee and poo :) I do line the crate with newspaper so it absorbs any liquid...but the important part is that a puppy really should be taken outside at most every couple of hours to become housetrained...if you don't or can't do that, it will take longer to house train a dog.

    As far as citronella collar for nipping...I don't think it would be effective. I think it is far more effective to disengage with the puppy..it sends and immediate message of "I won't play with you when you put your mouth on me". If it is true puppy mouthing, it will get better as the puppy grows up. If it is some bratty temper tantruming, then if you don't deal with it, it will get worse.

    You really need to find a good, positive reinforcement trainer...I think that will help you. Somewhere, maybe this thread? there is a link to the American Pet Dog Trainer website, most of the people listed there are well educated in positive training techniques. For even more certification, look for a trainer with the CPDT (Certified Professional Dog Trainer) title. You can also google CCPDT, and find a listing of these trainers there.

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • tanzaT

    I agree totally with Andrea…. her suggestions are right on... IMO

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • luzmery928L

    yeah I have my doubts about the trainer because well he isn't even a real trainer just "knows alot about dogs", and he didn't mention anything about positive reinforcement but he is affordable and can sort of guide us towards something. The thing is that Champ is already 1 year old and we have tried all the suggestions about his mouthing and he just dosen't stop, although the spray bottle does seem to help for a while. I am going to call the guy today and speak to him about my concerns and see if he's willing to work with our ideas and if not then we'll just be hitting this forum alot more often

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  • jys1011J

    I ditto Andrea…I think there's a HUGE difference between people "know" & "love" dogs & have "had dogs" all their life giving advice vs. someone who is a "trained" professional. One who is familiar with behavior & reactions of a wide range of dogs not just the one's they've owned.

    I had to go through a couple of trainers to really find one that I liked & was comfortable with. I also READ A LOT of books to find what I thought was best for my dogs. Check out the www.dogwise.com website. They have lots of great books there. I can recommend an author…Patricia Mcconnell who is not a trainer but an animal behaviorist. She's written great books & I believe she also has one on puppy training.

    IMO I also think it takes time for dogs to "unlearn" a behavior. According to your posts you've only been working on his nipping for maybe a week or two. Unfortunately it's going to take a lot longer for Champ to learn what you want him to do.

    Good luck

    Basenji Mom of C3PO & TOPAZ

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  • luzmery928L

    We have actually been working with our B for about 1 month. We've only had him for almost 2 months. I know it takes time and we are giving it time but I would have at least expected the last month to have shown some improvement on his nipping. Thanks for the resource I am in the process of receiving the B hand book that was also recommended by a forum member and will look up your recomeendation. Maybe with the crate Champ will also learn some more control over all not only with the potty.

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  • luzmery928L

    I also wanted to start Champ in the basic training offered by petsmart but was wondering if I should wait until we work on the nipping and potty first or we can do it at the same time

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  • QuercusQ

    I didn't realize that Champ is a year old. That definitely is older than the average age for seeing these kind of problems. Usually play biting runs its course by the age of 6-8 mos or so…after that if you are still seeing a lot of biting, the dog has often learned to use his mouth to get what he wants.

    It is really hard to diagnose, and give good suggestions over the internet. But I would seriously, seriously look into finding a good trainer or behaviorist. I am concerned that what you are describing as play biting, or nipping might actually be aggression. It might be more expensive than the guy who you contacted, but it could very well be worth it to you and this dog in the long run.

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • luzmery928L

    Well I really don't think it's agressive (I'm not an expert though) but what the guy said was that he is unusually immature for his age and he was probably taken from his mom too early so no mommie to teach him the basics of nipping. I do believe this is like as if he was still a pup and in that nipping stage. He dosen't growl, show he's teeth or close his jaw when he's nipping. Well now the guy offered to come to my home to help and at no cost so we'll give it a try. We only started with the water spray this weekend and will also buy the bitter apple and see how that goes. I'm definetly going to start crating him this weekend (yes I caved in but now I realize it is best for us all).

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  • QuercusQ

    What is he doing, and what are you (or whoever he is interacting with) doing when he is biting? For instance, are you just petting him, and he starts, or are you playing with him with your hands, then he starts, or are you trying to keep him from doing something, or taking away something he has snatched?

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • luzmery928L

    Let me give you the run down…When my daughter comes home he jumps at her and nipps her anywhere...If she plays, he'll play nice but might start nipping if he gets really excited..he'll jump up and nip. When we pet him, he dosen't usually nip but might start licking then he'll start the nipping. If someone new comes into the house he'll jump up and nip. But he dosen't nip if lets say we take away a toy, carry him, nothing that to my experience would fall under the aggressive category. Even if we pull something away from him, he won't nip at us per say but will kind of nip to just play

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  • QuercusQ

    Yep sounds like inappropriate play. Definitely try the Bitter Apple spray on your arms. And I *would put him in his crate for five minutes or so when he gets wound up like that. Give him a stuffed bone, or kong, anything that entertains him. It is more like a time out, than a punishment. It helps the dog calm down.

    Another thing that helps is find a way to interact with him in a constructive way (like clicker training) and then engage him in that BEFORE he starts to nip. He nips because he wants your attention. If you give him your attention while playing by YOUR rules, you will both win :)

    I would definitely sign him up for some classes ASAP…try to find one that uses treat training, as I doubt you would be able to engage this type of dog with any other type of training. You will both enjoy it, and I think it will help him focus.

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • luzmery928L

    Well I had mentioned to the guy who is gonna help us out with Champ that I wanted to take him to basic training at petsmart but he said different training might confuse Champ…Is this true?

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  • QuercusQ

    Well…..if the training theories are REALLY different, then maybe...but more likely it would confuse you :) The trainers at PetSmart have to go through at least SOME training, whereas the guy you are talking about may not have. It doesn't sound like this guy's techniques are so out there that you wouldn't be able to use exercises from both places and take what you like, and leave what you don't.

    Does this guy use treats to train?

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • luzmery928L

    He only came once and didn't do much training but play and admire Champ. Yeah I know what are we paying for. But now he's gonna do this, no fee, and will show us about crate training, walking and using the citrus collar for the nipping. We will see more this Sun. when the introduction has now been done and the real "trianing" can begin.

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  • QuercusQ

    Weellll…..you get what you pay for ;) Honestly, don't let him do anything to your dog that you are uncomfortable with. Anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, and sometimes owners are too embarrassed to say 'stop doing that to my dog'. But you have to be your dog's advocate, and protector. Some training methods can, and do make behaviors worse that people were trying to fix.

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • DukeD

    @luzmery928:

    Let me give you the run down…When my daughter comes home he jumps at her and nipps her anywhere...If she plays, he'll play nice but might start nipping if he gets really excited..he'll jump up and nip. When we pet him, he dosen't usually nip but might start licking then he'll start the nipping. If someone new comes into the house he'll jump up and nip. But he dosen't nip if lets say we take away a toy, carry him, nothing that to my experience would fall under the aggressive category. Even if we pull something away from him, he won't nip at us per say but will kind of nip to just play

    Well here's my 2 cents and mind you I'm not a professional trainer either. The behavior Champ is having with your daughter sounds like the exact same "crap" my Duke would do to my son (8 yrs old) last year. This forum wasn't around when I was going thru this. But here's what I did, based on advice I got from Jean Skaggs. She really knows Basenji behavior. I told my son to just get up and walk away slowly. No eye contact, no verbage, no interaction or even a reprimand. Otherwise, the basenji is being rewarded with even negative attention. If they get nothing for bad behavior, they get no attention-reward, and stop the behavior. Only desireable behavior should get them attention-reward. He's been in tears over this and I didn't like to see my boy mad and frustrated. I've had to remind-remind-remind my son of how to handle Duke's crazy behavior. I've even had to teach his visiting friends.

    You might want to follow some nipping advice I got from Ms. Skaggs that is listed on the Basenji Companion link: http://basenjicompanions.org/tips/aggression/nipping.html
    Jean's approach for nipping worked like a charm for us. Everyone had to be on deck for this to work.

    Good luck with this one.

    Jill

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  • luzmery928L

    @Quercus:

    Weellll…..you get what you pay for ;) Honestly, don't let him do anything to your dog that you are uncomfortable with. Anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, and sometimes owners are too embarrassed to say 'stop doing that to my dog'. But you have to be your dog's advocate, and protector. Some training methods can, and do make behaviors worse that people were trying to fix.

    Oh no, you better believe noone will be doing anything that we are not comfortable with. We will be present throughout his entire training/playday (I think the guy is doing this more for his own entertainment/research). We'll give him a trial basis since he can help with some details we might be over looking. But no Champ is our priority and we won't be embarresed if it means the best for our B

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    Piggy only has problems pooping when she gets panicky too. For example if we leave her home in a crate and someone comes in the house but doesn't come down to see her or let her out she will do it. We can't put anything in her crate or she shreds it, we tried everything. For a while I was even buying fleece baby blankets at the dollar store and tossing them if she pooped. We gave up on that after a while. The mess was terrible, so I can relate to hours of cleanup… by the time you get her cleaned up and the crate. We did some desensitizing and left for short periods like I described before, and that helped a lot. My friend that has a B went to the vet about her anxiety, hers would cry incessantly, and they actually gave her meds, prozac I think, for it. I think she tried it, but didn't think it worked enough to do it. Sounded crazy to me. It hasn't happened in a while so we have been lucky. She has come to terms with her crate now and will once in a while go hang out in it by choice, so I know she doesn't hate it. Have you tried one of those snuggle buddy things? I wonder if you could find some way to protect it if Darwin had an accident. Best of luck and lots of patience!
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    Here a Poop, there a poop,…..everywhere a ....

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    How exciting! Caesar never had training problems, but Beta was a wreck. She was an angel the first 6 months and then she began peeing in any room that i wasnt in. At the time i had a townhome where the bedrooms were all upstairs. I had the stairs gated and my basenjis had full roaming of the living room dining room and the kitchen which was visually blocked by the kitchen countertop from the living area. Once Beta hit 6 months she began changing or adjusting to the home and the other animals (Caesar and the 4 cats). She became snarfy, she became food aggressive, and she started to sneak out of my sight to pee on the kitchen floor or in Caesar's bed. The downstairs wasnt huge, so I didnt understand that the area was too big for her. In her case, she was asserting herself as alpha to the other pets in the house. Beta had a very difficult life before I adopted her and it took me 2 years to finally teach her that you pee only on grass. I am not saying that your pup is pooping for the same alpha reason, but here is what I had to do to get her to stop. I was so frustrated and knew that she was no where near ready for basic training. I knew she was adjusting. I understood that what she was doing was behavioral not physical. I brought in a trainer who becan to work with her because I was out of ideas. He suggested that the area she had to roam in was too large even though it seemed incredibly small to me. He told me to keep her harness and leash on inside the house. This made Beta aware that I was on top of her. If she went into the kitchen, I was there holding the leash. If she was in the living room sitting, I was there. Sometimes I just attached the leash to my pants to make it easier. She never peed in front of me and basically stopped the behavior because I was with her. The other major thing I found that helped Beta with settling down was exercise. She required a lot more exercise than Caesar. When I moved to a place with a fenced yard or took her to the dog park she could just burn that energy off. I found with Beta, that treat training would just not work for her. She would get extremely excited about treats, but her behavioral problems were mostly affected by my actions and attention. Food didnt matter. Caesar was really easy with training because I adopted him as a puppy. I could use the crate for time outs and he understood and would improve. Beta lived in a cage for over 1year and a half straight which was too small and in her own filth. I couldnt and wouldnt use the crate as time out for her. She liked going to the crate, and going to the bathroom in her crate was easier for her because it was her environment for so long. Her problem was adjusting to the world outside. So, restrict the area and keep a leash on her. She may be getting too much free roaming space too soon. Can't hurt to try it. She will soon forget what she was doing. And dont forget to get that Natural's Magic (I think that is the name) for pet smells in the carpet at your pet store. This should keep her from revisiting the same spot if she is doing that.