Behavior Change for the Better

[Zande]

@sanjibasenji I'm sorry but I think I am missing something here.

You are tending to take the word of a vet, who may have seen two or three different Basenjis for brief visits, against the experience of breeders who have had males and females in quantity and in residence over many years !

My Vets will consult ME if there is the slightest doubt or something is new to them. They have 21 years of my Basenjis (I changed vets in 2000 after my family had about 50 years with another Practice, including 20 with Basenjis) and these are the only ones they have ever treated. Over the years I have trained them into the ways of our Breed.

It is not exactly literature, but do go to my website and read my piece "Basenji Boys Have A Rutting Season Too" - http://www.zandebasenjis.com/rutting.htm

Believe me, there are MANY aspects of Life with a Basenji where I and other experienced breeders around the world have better knowledge than any vet.

You should take our knowledge as being far more reliable than the opinion of a Vet inexperienced in the ways of our Breed. In any case - your own experience has shown you, albeit only once so far - that we have the right of it.

[sanjibasenji]

@tanza
Thanks Pat, I know you're not criticizing me. I'm in agreement with you all. I think this is a clear case in which the science world, for whatever reason, is behind reality, which is the common pattern I and you all are experiencing: that male basenji's experience a rut.

He did not doubt that basenji bitches tend to ovulate once a year as you describe, but that males have a rut and act differently during the same period. It only matter if there is research on this to convince my vet that his knowledge needs updating. He said he was open to the possibility.

Thanks for your helpful input.

[sanjibasenji]

@zande said in Behavior Change for the Better:

You are tending to take the word of a vet, who may have seen two or three different Basenjis for brief visits, against the experience of breeders who have had males and females in quantity and in residence over many years !

Perhaps I didn't write clearly, but in fact I wrote that I don't believe my vet is correct and that you all are correct. I wrote above,

I tried to explain [to my vet] that although I could not find any literature on it, it doesn't seem to be a coincidence that breeders in the UK, US, and Canada, with decades of experience, confirmed the same phenomenon happening with males at the same time of the year for the same duration, year after year -- whining, agitated, less responsive to commands, constantly wanting out to seek females whether he scents they're in heat or not.

I hope I can start to inform my vet (about this matter at least) as you have yours.

You should take our knowledge as being far more reliable than the opinion of a Vet inexperienced in the ways of our Breed.

Indeed, that is what I was trying to convey on this point, that it cannot be world-wide coincidence that "breeders in the UK, US, and Canada, with decades of experience, confirmed the same phenomenon happening with males at the same time of the year for the same duration, year after year..."

Thanks for the link to your observations. I'm wondering if I could contact your vet and ask if my vet may consult them to learn more about basenjis. Would this be appropriate?

BTW, since his rut ended, Sanji is like an entirely different dog. Cuddly, sweet, playful, obedient, etc. I've grown so fond of him now. Dream dog!

My guess is that he had a particularly strong rut due going through puberty and taking him out everyday for substantial socializing, exercise, including him chasing deer (I've cut back on that until the recall is perfected), and that this may have resulted in a particularly strong hormonal system and sex drive in him. But this is just an uninformed guess. Maybe some basenjis regardless differ on that as Pat seems to suggest.

[sanjibasenji]

@tanza

Postscript: I just looked at your web (don't know why I hadn't) and realized you are in Pleasanton. Small world! I've ended up in Michigan, but I was born in Oakland (1962), raised in Castro Valley. My sister still lives there, my brother in Livermore, Mom in Reno. Next time I'm out there visiting family, would love to stop by and see your dogs. We may bring Sanji with us. Would that be OK?

[eeeefarm]

@sanjibasenji said in Behavior Change for the Better:

including him chasing deer

You might want to be careful about that. On a hunter's forum for Michigan I read about the "3S" rule in regard to dogs chasing deer. (shoot, shovel, and shut up). And this quote "if we see a dog on a deer or moose, legal or not, 99% of us will shoot it."

Word to the wise....

(I know farmers with the same solution to dogs bothering their livestock)

[sanjibasenji]

@eeeefarm

Thanks. I'm careful to avoid areas where such hunters are, which isn't the areas I frequent (never private land). Even when Sanji is older and the training is more or less completed, and he would obey my recall after siting deer, I wouldn't take him out on the mountain biking trails in the larger public lands during hunting season for my own safety as well. Muzzle loading season isn't too bad, but we never ride the trails during rifle season, except at night.

Where he chased deer was within a Midland City Forest Park, 520 acres, in a suburban area (surrounded by housing). No hunters. But I'm not taking him even there again until I have better control and he stays within my eye site and keeps in my vicinity.

The training I'm doing in Bartsow Woods, a 24 acre fenced park near my house, is perfect for this. About 90% of visitors come with their dogs for off-leash romps, so it's ideal for recall training and tracking. Lots of distractions. And since his rut, I realized that the training progressed more than I realized. I hardly have to use the ecollar to bring him away from a pack, my whistle works, and when I do have to use the ecollar, it's just a low setting nick. Very happy lately. And now I know this will probably change next fall when he goes into rut again.

[tanza]

@sanjibasenji - Well my girls are older so maybe not a great idea unless we meet outdoors and walk on lead to see how they get alone.

[elbrant]

@eeeefarm said in Behavior Change for the Better:

legal or not, 99% of us will shoot it.

That horrifies me. About 2 weeks ago, I had a young (10 yo?) boy tell me that if he had his gun he would shoot my "Fox". I understand hunting (for meat, survival, etc.). I do not understand how an adult can put a gun in the hand of a child and not teach them the difference between wildlife and a pet on a leash. (withholding emotional outlash because this wasn't anyone on the forum)

[Zande]

@sanjibasenji I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. And I am not sure if it is me to whom you address the question about putting the vets in touch ?

Frankly, at the moment, no. We are not allowed in to the Vet's office with our dogs. We phone from the carpark that we have arrived and the Vet comes out and collects the animal, take it inside, and subsequently brings it back and we have a consultation, sort of, on the carpark. Often in the pouring rain.

There are four Vets at the Practice I use. One has Covid despite all their precautions. (Of course it is my favourite !) So they are under considerable stress at the moment.

[sanjibasenji]

Sally -
Thanks and "no worries" (as they say here in the Midwest). Hope all is well with you and HAPPY holidays!