@senjisilly just now saw your reply. Thanks for the pedigree website. I knew about it and it’s a great resource.
Misty mountains in Knoxville TN
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@foster1286 - So I email this person and asked for pedigree and health information on these pups, pedigree and health testing. She emailed me back that all the pups were sold... I then emailed and asked if they had upcoming litters that she could supply pedigree and health information. The response was "I am not home and not in the office"..... this is really NOT a good responsible answer from a responsible breeder. I would not purchase a pup from this person and would have to agree this might be a scam site.
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@tanza said in Misty mountains in Knoxville TN:
@jengosmonkey - That is typically for a BYB, they don't "attach" a kennel name (if it is valid) and/or register their dogs... Chances of anyone getting the pedigree or health testing information in my opinion is slim to none.
How right you are. @foster1286, For the uninitiated Basenji enthusiast there are at least a few things to SERIOUSLY look into before getting a pup/dog from anyone!!!
The first is Fanconi. Didn't catch that? I'll speak up. FANCONI! It's a PREVENTABLE crappy time consuming expensive heart breaking disease that will crush you and your dog under a mountain of misery filled tears. Read more about Fanconi here. Respectfully demand to see OFA testing results for both Sire and Dam from ANYONE selling a Basenji.
The second is Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA). Read more about Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) here. Same as above... preventable.
Sire and Dam should have been tested for both diseases prior to breeding to ensure they are not passing the diseases on to their puppies.
If you want to go further, ask to see OFA hip x-ray results for both Sire and Damn. Canine Hip Dysplasia can also be a thing Read more about Canine Hip Dysplasia here. From what I understand hip x-rays are usually taken once the dog reaches two years of age.
I'm no expert by any stretch. While I've had basenjis for quite a while, I've only become serious about them in the last year an half. A good part of what I know I learned from real experts here on this forum.
There are host of other things you might consider learning about if you care to. For instance color, temperament (which I think is HUGE!), intelligence, agility and more. You might just want a pup to snuggle up to on the couch, or maybe you want to engage in other activities with your dog like agility, obedience training and stuff like that. A solid breeder will asses you, your goals, your household and match you up with a pup/dog that will more than likely result in your success. An experienced responsible breeder knows what you don't. They can help you.
All that said, I wouldn't bother engaging with any breeder who won't or can't provide parental health testing results. All responsible breeders will.
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@jengosmonkey - Exactly... totally agree. DNA for both Fanconi and PRA is a cheek swab... easy to do... period. If you @foster1286, would like to look at what usual health testing is done, here is the link to one of my girls on the OFA site. https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1415062
Color should be the last thing or sex of the pup for that matter (unless you want to have two, then opposite sex are the best choice). We all have preference in color but since unless you are breeding a pure for red to a pure for red, you can't count on the colors that are born. Depends on their DNA for color. Same with sex... they are what they are when born. -
@foster1286 - I have been trying to get from this person the pedigree and health of these pups... this is what she sent me... a bunch of pictures NO health information other than "My lines are healthy". I would run away especially her response seen below that people that backed out "lost" their deposit.
From: Linda Bluder rustyb48@hotmail.com
To: tanzab@aol.com tanzab@aol.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 22, 2021 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: Good news Rusty be the dog lady - Another Misty Mountains the dog house inquiryMy line is clean it came from a clean kennel and my line has kept clean I don't have any paperwork to issue at this time my meals have been dna I actually have two female puppies and a male puppy that's approximately 10 weeks old a couple of people have backed out of the deal they put down a deposit and they lost their deposit
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She did finally send me the pedigree of some of the dogs, they all come from Nocturnal Kennels that also took names from a person that stole kennel names from Cambria Kennels. This was a kennel name that was retired by the AKC... They are on Sally's pedigree site. I will say that if the DNA that was sent in, the pedigrees they sent me were the real sire/dam, they will show as clear for Fanconi.. not other testing... again, in my opinion I would not agree this is a good breeder.
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Thank you everyone for your responses.
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IMHO, I think "the dog house" is a backyard breeder. Why? Because the Google Satellite/Arial view of her property indicates a small yard with not enough space, supplies or containment for a proper breeding environment. I suspect that she acquired a pair of Basenji's and has been breeding them. Naturally, I have no knowledge that would suggest whether she is being mentored and learning, or just looking for a fast buck. Again, this is just the impression I get.
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@elbrant - As I already posted, her dogs come from Nocturnal Kennels and in those pedigrees are the "stolen" kennel name of Cambria that was retired from AKC when the owner passed years ago.
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@tanza Just so I understand what you are saying: Are you suggesting that (these particular Basenji's) have falsified pedigrees?
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@elbrant - Could be this is not a responsible breeder where their breeding dogs came from.... I would suggest that anyone getting a pup would DNA test for Fanconi and PRA at the very least. This is a backyard breeder and all steps should be taken to verify health and temperament. And since I know that person will not refund a deposit, I find this different from responsible breeders. This is what they posted to me
My line is clean it came from a clean kennel and my line has kept clean I don't have any paperwork to issue at this time my meals have been dna I actually have two female puppies and a male puppy that's approximately 10 weeks old a couple of people have backed out of the deal they put down a deposit and they lost their deposit -
I recognised the affix Misty Mnts and there are many of them in the data base. Also two with the words spelled out - Misty Mountains - But nothing recent. In any case, scammers seem to take photos of known dogs and claim them as their own. Someone recently sent me a link, purporting to be a litter of puppies for sale. The photos show just about every colour in the book, and every dog is posed in a different room (or house !). And almost all the dogs are mismarks.
I can understand, although not approve, the tendency to use other photos of other breeders' dogs to set up a scam. But for the life of me, I can't understand offering an entire litter of mismarks ?!?!?!
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@tanza said in Misty mountains in Knoxville TN:
in those pedigrees are the "stolen" kennel name of Cambria
I was specifically asking about this comment in relation to the dogs that this person is (apparently) breeding from... are you suggesting that the pedigree is falsified?
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@elbrant I am pretty sure @tanza was referring to the use of the Affix 'Cambria' -
You must be a great deal younger than either of us, not to know that 'Cambria' and 'Bob Mankey' were practically synonymous.
It was, and still is, a very famous affix which is now used, sadly, by breeders of less standing in the Breed. Bob and Jack Schafer bred Basenjis through the 1950s, 60s and 70s and wrote books on them which are still current today.
Try Google.
But it is also true that pedigrees can easily be falsified and probably are, more often than we know. This is one reason we keep hammering the point, if you are unsure of how responsible the breeder is, make sure you see the paperwork pertaining to the parents of the litter, and if possible, see Mom too.
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@zande Thanks for checking my math and finding the info in your database. I was wrong and stand corrected.
I also appreciate your last post containing history! Love your memory and experience. I’ll be looking up Cambria, Bob and Jack.As far as this breeder… I suppose it could be legitimate, but I’m still leaning towards it’s not. Something else just occurred to me @foster1286, if you’re still interested in this breeder because it’s convenient, which I can understand. Why not call them and arrange an in person visit? Tour the kennel, meet the breeder, meet the dogs and puppies, see how they’ve been treated, get the history first hand, and then decide if it makes sense to move forward.
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@JENGOSMonkey I wasn't checking your math ! I read these posts with no time to respond but came back to them cos of the Misty Mnts affix.
How is Ring Craft going ?
btw - a couple of evenings ago, a large rabbit had been around my front garden - flower beds, borders and lawns. When I went out to play with the boys after their tea, they got the scent of the bunny and really quartered the ground, as a team, before both disappearing into the middle of one of the borders - to its detriment !
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@jengosmonkey - They are a Backyard Breeder judging by the pedigree on their dogs and not just a scam site. Again if someone buys from this person I would highly suggest that DNA is done on the pup for both Fanconi and PRA. And since it was noted by this person on the email that I send part of that they will not return the deposit if the person backs out, I would not send a deposit until this is done.
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@elbrant said in Misty mountains in Knoxville TN:
@tanza said in Misty mountains in Knoxville TN:
in those pedigrees are the "stolen" kennel name of Cambria
I was specifically asking about this comment in relation to the dogs that this person is (apparently) breeding from... are you suggesting that the pedigree is falsified?
As noted by Zande, I was referring to the using of a old time kennel name.... and those dogs never came from the original breeder of that kennel name. I never said that the pedigree was falsified... I said that the pedigree including the using of a kennel name that was very important to the breed and are NOT related to any of the Basenji in this person's pedigrees.
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@tanza said in Misty mountains in Knoxville TN:
@jengosmonkey - They are a Backyard Breeder judging by the pedigree on their dogs and not just a scam site. Again if someone buys from this person I would highly suggest that DNA is done on the pup for both Fanconi and PRA. And since it was noted by this person on the email that I send part of that they will not return the deposit if the person backs out, I would not send a deposit until this is done.
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@jengosmonkey said in Misty mountains in Knoxville TN:
@tanza said in Misty mountains in Knoxville TN:
@jengosmonkey - They are a Backyard Breeder judging by the pedigree on their dogs and not just a scam site. Again if someone buys from this person I would highly suggest that DNA is done on the pup for both Fanconi and PRA. And since it was noted by this person on the email that I send part of that they will not return the deposit if the person backs out, I would not send a deposit until this is done.
Agree, but the breeder should pay for this in this case, at least that is my opinion. And I seriously doubt that that she will pay for those tests. Could be that all is OK, but best to make sure and not bring the pup home first and then find out there are issues. While the breeder might say OK send it back... if you had a pup would you really send it back?
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@tanza The threads and stories I've read about owners bonding with dogs since puppyhood only to find out later in the dogs life that it's Fanconi affected... It's heart breaking, yet far too late. I agree. Breeder should pay.
