Cute, but head is not a Basenji type… that said... when you have mixes, they can take on the "DNA" from either/or.... sire/dam... there was a litter years ago of a Beagle mix and a purebred Basenji... I think it was a litter of 6 or more.... 2 looked totally like a Basenji, two like a Beagle... one in fact looked totally like a German Shepard.... so with mixes, you never know unless someone really knows who the Mom/Dad are
Lets try this again.. Finley! Our adopted Basenji mix. :]
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@dmcarty said in Lets try this again.. Finley! Our adopted Basenji mix.
:not a basenji. likely a smooth medio Podengo. www.podengo-mediogrande.com
Wow does not look like Podengos at all to me.
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Thanks for all the great feedback! The more we get to know Finley the more we love her. The shelter we got her from was not a rescue for basenjis, It was the Hillsborough Count Pet Resource Center; basically a pound. They weighed her in at 37lb's on arrival at 7months of age. However they had her listed as shiba inu mix on her kennel, and then Basenji mix on her paperwork so the weight could be as off as that. Once she gets comfortable we will do a DNA test to determine her mix.
@Pawla Once she gets comfortable, We'd love to have a puppy playdate!
@Donc The tip of her tail curls upward when she is really happy (Which is almost all the time right now); But it does seem rather long and not bushy like other basenji
@pawla & @DebraDownSouth not sure if she would be directly from the incident (being only 8mo), but maybe a puppy from one that was?Interesting bit, whenever someone new approaches me or my girlfriend she gets defensive; not aggressive but she definitely stands her ground between my girlfriend and myself, and the other person approaching; If we encourage her she will go sniff them out if they knee down and don't look her in the eyes. During that initial stand her ground reflex though all the hair on her neck, shoulders and spin stand up; my golden retriever growing up use to do the exact same thing.
OH!..and she can bark...she doesn't do it often, but she definitely "can" bark.
I would like to know when a good time to test for fanconi's though. Whats a good age/time to do that?
Thanks again everyone! I hope she is Basenji so I can continue to hang out at the "cool kids table"(this forum)..
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@dmcarty said in Lets try this again.. Finley! Our adopted Basenji mix.
:smooth medio Podengo
I looked up some pictures of the smooth podengo, once again very similar traits, idk if there is a way to know for sure until we DNA test her. No matter what she is though, she is amazing
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Her behavior is consistent with a basenji, especially an Avongara. But she'd be a VERY hefty basenji. She's definitely not fat and the heaviest female I've heard of was just over 31 pounds as an adult.
If you think it will work, try having new people give her some food. We've found that transitioning from a stranger to a food source occurs quickly, and then every stranger becomes a potential food source.
You can test for Fanconi at any time but I"m nor sure why you'd want to do that. For inherited Fanconi Syndrome both parents have to be carriers. If she's a mix then you're expecting a dog from a different breed to be a carrier, which is highly unlikely. Plus, given that there isn't a preventative, a positive test wouldn't cause you do anything other than treat it if it appears, which is what you'd do without a test. Generally speaking pet owners don't test for Fanconi. It's more something you would do if you were breeding and concerned about passing the problem down to the pups. In this regard, there is acquired Fanconi Syndrome.
I'd be surprised if she was a podengo. There are so few of them around the odds just seem remote. But stranger things have happened. In any case, you can call her a basenji. Or at least an honorary one. Who is to say that's wrong?
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@debradownsouth "The infighting now 8 years on is silly.
I'm sorry I offended you - I didn't mean to. I know nothing of the controversy over the 2010 Wimauma basenjis - I was referring to an encounter with thatsame person I had a few years earlier. I apologize for dredging up this sad, old, closed story.If not a purebred, Finley certainly looks like a basenji. I love the suggestion to have new people offer Finley a treat. We all learn best from positive reinforcement (smile).
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@thepugsmuggler DNA WILL TELL YOU NOTHING ABOUT THE BREED ID. any of them say breed id is for recreation. As a podengo club we specifically have not provided any DNA to breed I'd companies....but if someone says I think it's Podengo...guess what....they tell you it's a podengo. All primitive breeds from the Mediterranean share some common ancestors.
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@donc said in Lets try this again.. Finley! Our adopted Basenji mix.
:You can test for Fanconi at any time but I"m nor sure why you'd want to do that. For inherited Fanconi Syndrome both parents have to be carriers. If she's a mix then you're expecting a dog from a different breed to be a carrier, which is highly unlikely. Plus, given that there isn't a preventative, a positive test wouldn't cause you do anything other than treat it if it appears, which is what you'd do without a test. Generally speaking pet owners don't test for Fanconi. It's more something you would do if you were breeding and concerned about passing the problem down to the pups. In this regard, there is acquired Fanconi Syndrome. <<
Actually, if someone was breeding mixed back to each other, you could have fanconi. It is definitely worth testing. Also, knowing early allows owners to do some preventative things to help their dog delay onset. IF the dog has Fanconi, check with Camp Basenji on some protocols.
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@pawla said in Lets try this again.. Finley! Our adopted Basenji mix.
:@debradownsouth "The infighting now 8 years on is silly.
I'm sorry I offended you - I didn't mean to. I know nothing of the controversy over the 2010 Wimauma basenjis - I was referring to an encounter with thatsame person I had a few years earlier. I apologize for dredging up this sad, old, closed story.If not a purebred, Finley certainly looks like a basenji. I love the suggestion to have new people offer Finley a treat. We all learn best from positive reinforcement (smile).
The problem is the debate over pure, not pure took a life of it's own instead of caring for the dogs. It was used as one of the many excused for not testing, yet those tested have a high rate of carriers and we have lost several to Fanconi, others living with it still.
Your toss a treat from strangers is standard, beautiful and logical. I wish more people worked on doing that. Dogs guard when they feel they have the job to protect, when you want to be the one deciding when protection is needed. Helping them see people as GOOD is safer, makes their lives happier. So yes, totally agree.
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@dmcarty said in Lets try this again.. Finley! Our adopted Basenji mix.
:@thepugsmuggler DNA WILL TELL YOU NOTHING ABOUT THE BREED ID. any of them say breed id is for recreation. As a podengo club we specifically have not provided any DNA to breed I'd companies....but if someone says I think it's Podengo...guess what....they tell you it's a podengo. All primitive breeds from the Mediterranean share some common ancestors.
Even if you as a club haven't submitted any Podengo, does that mean individual owners are barred from doing so? Can you explain why your club doesn't want them in the data bases? In a world where eventually DNA will be the gold standard, why not be in there?
As for "entertainment" only... it was. Now, not so much. The accuracy has risen considerably, especially with dogs that aren't mixed for generations. They aren't even close to perfect, but those with more breeds in their database indeed have higher accuracy. Furthermore, I disagree totally that it isn't important. The following link gives a lot of reasons why, but knowing what your dog's breed make up is important to know not only behaviors (herding, etc) but potential health issues (seizures, diabetes, blood clotting disorders, issues with iron etc).
http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=23206
Breed genetics concept scientifically credible
The concept of determining a dog’s breed background by analyzing its DNA is grounded in science. In a paper published in the journal Science in 2004, canine geneticist Elaine Ostrander and colleagues described a technique they developed for identifying dog breeds based on genetic markers. Ostrander, who currently works at the National Human Genome Research Institute, part of the National Institutes of Health, described the approach, along with her broader work on the canine genome, in an article published in 2007 by American Scientist.
The markers the researchers used are not genes themselves, but repeating sequences of DNA known as microsatellites. The commercial tests use a different kind of marker known as single-nucleotide polymorphisms — abbreviated SNPs and pronounced like "snips” — that are small mutations within the genome. Whether using microsatellites or SNPs, the markers, taken together, form signatures particular to each breed.
Because the identification technique is not based on genes, it does not specifically relate to physical or behavioral traits that characterize particular breeds. In other words, the technique doesn’t recognize a bulldog by finding the genes that give it a snub nose, beefy head and squat stature.
Consequently, breeds that are vastly different in appearance might, by chance, have similar genetic signatures, which helps explain some head-scratching results. For example, portions of the signatures of Chihuahuas and some mastiff breeds are maddeningly similar, according to Dr. Angela Hughes, a veterinarian and geneticist at Mars Veterinary.
On the other hand, some breed combinations truly result in dogs that resemble other breeds entirely. Hughes recalled a case of a dog that looked like a black Labrador retriever that tested as a golden retriever mix, which made sense to her as a geneticist.
“You can lose that longer coat in one generation,” she explained. “Goldens carry a black gene. They don’t express it in their coat because the yellow gene blocks all black. They do express it in their nose, eye rims and the pads of their feet. But the golden is recessive. So if you breed a golden retriever to a dog that doesn’t have the genes for yellow and long hair, you’re likely to have a black dog with a short coat.”
In a similar vein, test results suggesting pairings of large with small dogs may raise doubts but such combinations aren’t impossible, Hughes said. She explained: “The larger female will lie down” for the mating.
Breeds have distinctive genetic signatures owing to the fact their members are genetic isolates — that is, bred from a limited population of dogs. The more unique the breed characteristics, the easier to identify a breed's members via their DNA. Explained Dr. Urs Giger, a veterinarian who heads the clinical program in medical genetics and pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania (UPenn) School of Veterinary Medicine: “The more you’re inbreeding ... that will clearly make the genes among the dogs more similar.”
A mixed-breed dog whose parents or grandparents are purebred generally is easier to identify than a dog descended from generations of mixes.
Giger said improvements in DNA-based breed identification may contribute to the development of genetic tests for medical conditions. “The mixed-breed test is the first complex-trait test and thereby is showing the way (for) testing for other complex traits, like hip dysplasia, in the future,” he said.
The science of dog-breed detection may be solid, but that doesn’t mean any given DNA test is reliable. Its accuracy depends upon the quality of information upon which the analysis is based.
For example, when the Canine Heritage test debuted in early 2007 as the first such test on the consumer market, it detected 38 breeds. Results for any dog with a background outside of those 38 breeds would have been inconclusive.
Wisdom Panel launched in fall 2007 with 134 breeds. Now Canine Heritage is up to 120 breeds, while Wisdom Panel lists 203.<<
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folks should remwmber that while fanconi shows up the MOST in basenji because we have such a small gene pool, if does occur in other breeds and other animals.
re: Podengo DNA if people want to submit they can but statistically unless there are hundreds of samples to come up with a baseline there would not be comparative info.
We collect samples for other health issues that are a priority for a small population.
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@debradownsouth said in Lets try this again.. Finley! Our adopted Basenji mix.
:Actually, if someone was breeding mixed back to each other, you could have fanconi. It is definitely worth testing. Also, knowing early allows owners to do some preventative things to help their dog delay onset. IF the dog has Fanconi, check with Camp Basenji on some protocols.
It really comes down whether it makes sense to test. If you're not breeding and you have the dog, I don't understand the value of the test. I did look at Camp Basenji and didn't find anything about preventing genetic Fanconi Syndrome, only what to do to keep in under control. As a Basenji owner I'd assume you'd be looking for renal issues.
The other issue is why stop at Fanconi? If you're testing, why not also test for PRA and autoimmune thyroiditis?
The point is that these tests tend to be breed specific, and the breed is unknown. Seems like a better approach would be to DNA test to determine the breed -- which I think is a good idea -- before DNA testing for diseases specific to the breed you think your pup might be. Just my opinion.
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@donc said in Lets try this again.. Finley! Our adopted Basenji mix.
:It really comes down whether it makes sense to test. If you're not breeding and you have the dog, I don't understand the value of the test. I did look at Camp Basenji and didn't find anything about preventing genetic Fanconi Syndrome, only what to do to keep in under control. As a Basenji owner I'd assume you'd be looking for renal issues.
The other issue is why stop at Fanconi? If you're testing, why not also test for PRA and autoimmune thyroiditis?
The point is that these tests tend to be breed specific, and the breed is unknown. Seems like a better approach would be to DNA test to determine the breed -- which I think is a good idea -- before DNA testing for diseases specific to the breed you think your pup might be. Just my opinion.
Okay, not sure how you misunderstood. I said IF your dog has Fanconi, check out protocols. Nothing was said about preventing it. You prevent it by not breeding an affected or carrier to another affected or carrier. If the dog has it, by getting ahead of the game, you have a chance to delay the effects of Fanconi. Waiting until your dog is suffering from it is late in the game.
The purpose of testing is, of course, critical for breeders. But for owners, I sure as heck want to know if my dog has a disorder. I do blood work each year for general things, but yes, I test for thyroid, eyes, etc. PRA is also a biggie with Samoyeds, our other dog. And, there are early treatments that can help delay symptoms and severity.. so another reason to do genetic testing. PRA is found in many breeds, so even with a mixed breed, I'd test. With breeders, testing and not breeding carrier to carrier eliminates affected puppies as it is a recessive gene.
If you aren't sure that your dog is a breed, then I agree... get a DNA test first. But sometimes you can get discounts by doing all at once, so if you're pretty sure, I'd do both. After our heartbreaking first Samoyed, we'll be doing a lot more testing on this guy. These ancient breeds are MOSTLY healthy, except where they aren't.
@dmcarty
Any idea how many dogs make up the gene pool for the Podengo? I won't bore the group, but if you're into serious genetics, you might like the Samoyed Genetics group on facebook. No soft science, no quackery... a bunch of really educated professionals that amaze me. We just had a thread on the topic so even if you don't want to join, glad to share them with you privately.Speaking of such... has anyone heard from Dr Jo Thompson? I know she is teaching here in the US and breeding, just wish she'd pop in. (Yes, a bit of hero worship. Being wrong and learning from her is well worth the rolling of eyes.
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@donc if this animal is connected to any African dogs of recent import. esp from Benin ( a former Portuguese colony that is possible OR while the numbers registered in the US is small....hunter dogs and packs have been in the US since the late 1800s. typically found in New England with pockets in fl, ca, and Georgia.
