:::Agressive at the park:::

[funnybunny]

ok before the ranting about the muzzle goes any further:

"NO MUZZLE FOR THE PARK"

I inquire to a dog trainer and explained the situation. and i will NOT be muzzling Milosh in the park. will NOT.

what i will do is leash milosh if he persists to start anything with the springer (a time out) - He also said it sounds like the owner of the springers really shouldn't be in a public park with her dogs acting as she does, it is pure normal for dogs to act that way and it sort itself out.

obviously i know its not about dog fighting-and she does too, but she dosent like how milsoh initiates it.

the trainer said muzzling him in the park could give him anxiety and get him more excited-and can couse a collapse!- so iam glad i inquired about the muzzle. now keep in mind Milosh is very highly strung and energetic which why the muzzle is not an option.

i will also try and talk to the lady to find out what hours might work best to avoid each other in the park.= wish me luck with this one!

thanks for the feedback!- keep u guys posted!

[tanza]

Good to hear that you will not use a muzzle… even if you would have asked a trainer and they said, yes... I would still positively say NO.... never should be an option.

I even have problems with lure coursing when some dogs are muzzled and some are not since it is optional... All should be muzzled.... like straight line or oval track racing... IMO. To have some muzzled and some not... makes it way to unfair to the muzzled dog if another dog were to come after them.

And I agree, sounds to me like the Springer is the problem, not the Basenji

[eeeefarm]

@tanza:

And I agree, sounds to me like the Springer is the problem, not the Basenji

It doesn't read quite that way to me. If I am properly understanding the OP, the Basenji initiates the incident. I don't think the question has been answered as to whether the Springer is having issues with other dogs, or just Milosh. If it's a general problem with the Springer, then sure. But if there is only an issue when Milosh is present, the blame has to be at least shared, if not put on him. (I would concur about muzzles, although most Basenjis I have known are agile enough to take care of themselves when at a disadvantage…..assuming they perceive they are at a disadvantage!)

[funnybunny]

@eeeefarm:

It doesn't read quite that way to me. If I am properly understanding the OP, the Basenji initiates the incident. I don't think the question has been answered as to whether the Springer is having issues with other dogs, or just Milosh. If it's a general problem with the Springer, then sure. But if there is only an issue when Milosh is present, the blame has to be at least shared, if not put on him. (I would concur about muzzles, although most Basenjis I have known are agile enough to take care of themselves when at a disadvantage…..assuming they perceive they are at a disadvantage!)

Obviously the springer has had issues in the past (ive been told by older park vets), which is why the owner is over protective and dosent like her springer socializing with hyper active dogs. I also feel one main reason could be they are trying to protect her as she starts to scream-dosent help matters much.

just like my Zeus dosent like puppies all on his face i make it aware to the owner oh my Zeus isnt too friendly with pups and Zeus just hisses (like a cat) nothing more, and the owner of their pup isnt offended .

this lady has had issues with her dog although hes also a bit older (6-7?) and one of her dogs has a hip problem -which makes her more sensitive when a dog rushes to her springers- still the fact remains the owner is very 'aloof' to discuss this and feel shes at the 'right' which she actually isnt .
considering iam trying to solve this issue w/o her help. and rudely insults my attendance towards my dogs.

yes, milsoh maybe hyper and aggressive when socializing, but that can be worked out by the dogs themselves supervised by their owners. not the other way around.

***a side note: ive found all her history by word of mouth. not her, she is not very friendly. unfortunately only rude comments have been exchanged.

[eeeefarm]

@funnybunny:

Obviously the springer has had issues in the past (ive been told by older park vets), which is why the owner is over protective and dosent like her springer socializing with hyper active dogs. I also feel one main reason could be they are trying to protect her as she starts to scream-dosent help matters much.

As in, the Springer has been attacked by other dogs and is fearful, or the Springer has done the attacking? ("issues" doesn't tell me much). Does the Springer attempt to socialize, or does it stay away from other dogs when it has a choice?

Full disclosure, I am not a fan of off leash parks, because many people who use them do not have good control of their animals. Minor snarks can indeed turn into full on battles, as vets can attest. Sure, most dogs will "work it out", but fearful ones may bite in self defense, which may in turn initiate a fight. Some people use the parks as the only venue where they can legally allow their dog the freedom to run. If they prefer that their dog not socialize, and if they have control over their own dog, they should not be put in the position of having to protect it from others that are aggressive and out of control. (I do realize that this is likely an impossible goal, but IMO dogs should not be off leash unless they have a reliable recall, regardless of distractions.)

[funnybunny]

well- my conclusion was that i will be avoiding this lady and her dogs. talking with her was nonconstructive and pointless - sad to say.

i have alternative parks and places to take my babies. it just saddens me to see people like this who are unwilling to communicate when they are their voice for the pet.

[Timesthemyth]

I'm only reading this from one viewpoint, but it seems obvious that the springer has the issue. I think that the best thing to do is to distance yourself and the dog. HOWEVER, please report this individual or let others know what has happened…..as someone who uses off leash dog parks...what happens when all the 'good people' leave is that you're left with a very dangerous dog park. It is the responsibility of everyone within the dog park to get rid of (as harsh as that sounds) any negative influences.

[eeeefarm]

@Timesthemyth:

but it seems obvious that the springer has the issue.

@funnybunny:

it seems as of lately Milosh has been obsessed with pokin' nippin a springer spaniel, (the sniffin, then the growl , then the side stare, and well…basenji snarl teeth .

Again, I am asking, how is this "obvious"? So far nobody has enlightened me about what the Springer is supposedly doing, other than being upset when another dog nips it in the butt. What am I missing here?

[Timesthemyth]

Well, this is all assuming that Milosh is a well-socialized, emotionally healthy dog. If a dog is going after one dog, and not other dogs, then I would assume that the dog that is being 'gone after' is sending out inappropriate body language that we can't otherwise see.

For example, I know my dog Beo is very well socialized. He gets along with most dogs and puppies…..so recently when he 'went after' (growling, lunging, extremely scary sounding) a 12 week old puppy....behavior out of character for him....then it's likely the other dog. [ Come to find out this puppy was separated at 6 weeks and acts extremely dominate…abnormally. Even my puppy acts cautious around him].

Other dogs are able to pick up on body language that we can't. So, that was my assumption anyways. Could be totally incorrect. But….if Milosh gets along fine with other dogs and this one dog comes along, and he just targets it...there is something off about the dog. A emotionally unstable dog that sends out negative signals to other dogs shouldn't be in a dog park IMHO... really for their protection. I've seen how quickly they will get taken down by normally well-adjusted dogs.

[eeeefarm]

Which is why I queried (several times) the behaviour of the other dogs towards the Springer.
@eeeefarm:

I guess the obvious question is whether she has an issue with anyone else's dogs? Is her dog reacting to others in a friendly way, or does it have a problem with every dog that tries to get personal? I would agree that if her dog can't tolerate other dogs she needs to rethink bringing it to the dog park, but if the issue is strictly between your dog and hers, that is another matter.

I have yet to receive an answer to my question.
@funnybunny:

Obviously the springer has had issues in the past (ive been told by older park vets), which is why the owner is over protective and dosent like her springer socializing with hyper active dogs.

To me, this suggests there are no current issues with dogs other than Milosh. If that is the case, then the blame must fall to him or at the most be equally shared…...and in the eyes of the law the aggressor will be the guilty party, should something untoward occur. "Blame the victim" is not in style these days. Sounds way too much like "she was asking for it". Yes, dogs will generally sort things out, and dogs can send out bad vibes, but the bottom line is that whatever the reason, if your dog is perceived as provoking the problem (and if he is the one who approaches the other dog rather than vice versa, he will certainly be perceived this way), then ultimately you will be the one who will be considered responsible. Best to avoid that situation if you can.

[Timesthemyth]

I think we can all agree that the 'aggressive' appearing dog is not always the aggressor. It's really hard to tell with out seeing it first hand. If multiple dogs have an issue with your dog though…..it's probably your dog. Regardless if your precious pooch was a rescue, or whatever, dogs don't think like that.

If a pedophile was in a playground adult humans would gang up on that individual....I feel like dogs are the same in that respect. If they sense something wrong they try to fix the situation by taking down that bad presence. That is my dog through and through...sweetest thing you will ever meet UNTIL a dog that has issues comes along. If that happens it's all about protecting the humans....

The fact that Milosh is described as an "alpha" is very telling. It's also very telling that the woman who owns the springer is perceived as rude by multiple people. The springer may just be picking up on negative energy from her, and is a perfectly sane dog. Hard to know..... but we can only offer advice based on the information given. For all we know the two were just playing normally and there is no problem.

Regardless, NO ONE should bring a dog into a dog park with a muzzle on. If a dog truly 'bites' (nipping isn't really biting) then it should not be at the dog park. Period. Socialization classes are for that, not our free time. If you think your dog might be the problem; starting fights, bullying.....then please go to classes not the dog park.

Someone brought a muzzled dog to the park the other day, and it did not stop the dog from showing aggressive behavior...just stopped it from biting..... and then of course all the dogs in the park (who were playing normally up until that point) jumped it. The energy changed 100% due to that one dog; as soon as it was gone things were fine.

[funnybunny]

I spoke to a trainer. and she met with milosh, she said hes fine, not to muzzle him (which i wasn't anyways) and if it occurs again 'time him out' on the leash for 5min. till he calms down. and play with him after hes unleashed-repeatedly he will 'get it'

and aside from the obvious that the springer and the owner are recluse at the park , speaks for itself. I wont peruse a solution with them any longer.

I already have spoken to the park office and multiple people at the park and a trainer. and also here on the forums(although many don't agree here with my story).

Milosh is a pretty healthy socialite and sour apples at the park wont stop us from having a good time.

[funnybunny]

I spoke to a trainer. and she met with milosh, she said hes fine, not to muzzle him (which i wasn't anyways) and if it occurs again 'time him out' on the leash for 5min. till he calms down. and play with him after hes unleashed-repeatedly he will 'get it'

and aside from the obvious that the springer and the owner are recluse at the park , speaks for itself. I wont peruse a solution with them any longer.

I already have spoken to the park office and multiple people at the park and a trainer. and also here on the forums(although many don't agree here with my story).

Milosh is a pretty healthy socialite and sour apples at the park wont stop us from having a good time.