Questions before I get my Basenji pup!
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I completely understand your concerns and you want to stop people like this from breeding. I have decided to stay with this pup though. This woman is done breeding and is selling the sire. My pup is from the on site sire and dam and I am not showing or anything, just want a pet! The mother and father have only been tested for fanconi using strip tests and were negative for fanconi. The pup has had his up to date vacs and so forth. I know I sound irresponsible now, but I have decided to go with this. Me and the lady have a deal worked out where she will take the pup back in case of any problems and so forth. I am getting him nuetered around the age of 1, so no breeding. I hope you will understand and allow me to be a part of your basenji family!
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I understand..but please understand this….striptesting for fanconi only means this..the dog or bitch didn't show sugar in the urine at that very moment the test was done...they still can very much be carriers or even affected, just not showing it yet. ..you will have to keep on doing that test all the time, every so often, unless you know for sure your dog can't get it..You can have your dog tested for fanconi via a DNA test, easy peasy to do, swab his mouth send it in and with two or so weeks you have the result.
I wish you luck..and I especially wish you luck should something come up in the future and you realize you might have to give him back to her..she won't be there..
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I completely understand your concerns and you want to stop people like this from breeding. I have decided to stay with this pup though. This woman is done breeding and is selling the sire. My pup is from the on site sire and dam and I am not showing or anything, just want a pet! The mother and father have only been tested for fanconi using strip tests and were negative for fanconi. The pup has had his up to date vacs and so forth. I know I sound irresponsible now, but I have decided to go with this. Me and the lady have a deal worked out where she will take the pup back in case of any problems and so forth. I am getting him nuetered around the age of 1, so no breeding. I hope you will understand and allow me to be a part of your basenji family!
Of course you will always be part of this basenji family! :) Everyone on this forum loves the breed and wants to share their stories/pictures of their crazy companions and breeding dogs.
Just understand that the comments people are giving you are done with the very best intentions so that you can have a healthy puppy for a long time. It's not even about a future possibility of breeding - we are trying to avoid heartache for you, high health costs down the road and the well being of any dog you bring into your family.
Since you mention this breeder is getting out of breeding, make sure the contract you sign specifically indicates the breeder, regardless of whether or not they are still breeding dogs, and wherever they may reside, will take back your dog for whatever reason. This would include you not being able to keep the dog (for personal reasons) or due to the dog's failing health.
BTW, I too only wanted a companion puppy. Breeding was not my interest at all. But I am happy that I can trace back 5 generations of Kipawa and know that he genetically has good hips, tested eyes and will not develop Fanconi. I love animals so much, and I actually have a pretty much open wallet when it comes to vet bills (they can get ridiculously expensive so fast). But I just didn't want to be involved in a life with a suffering animal.
What you might want to do is type in 'Fanconi' in the search area of the forum. There are a number of posts you might want to read so that you can feel totally informed on the illness. Some dogs die very young from it. Others can survive longer, but not unless they follow Dr. Gonto's 'protocol' of proper nutrition, vitamins and medications.
Once again, regardless of your choice, everyone will be here for you.
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I completely understand your concerns and you want to stop people like this from breeding. I have decided to stay with this pup though. This woman is done breeding and is selling the sire. My pup is from the on site sire and dam and I am not showing or anything, just want a pet! The mother and father have only been tested for fanconi using strip tests and were negative for fanconi. The pup has had his up to date vacs and so forth. I know I sound irresponsible now, but I have decided to go with this. Me and the lady have a deal worked out where she will take the pup back in case of any problems and so forth. I am getting him nuetered around the age of 1, so no breeding. I hope you will understand and allow me to be a part of your basenji family!
Nothing you nor this breeder can do will prevent this dog from suffering from Fanconi if it is in the dog's genes. The only thing that striptesting does is tell you when the Fanconi is becoming symptomatic. That won't be until the dog is 4-7 years of age. If you want to know if the pup will contact Fanconi, you will have to pay the $65 and have the DNA test. If your pup has Fanconi, good luck getting a BYB to return your phone calls, much less take the pup back. Been there, done that, won't do it again.
Your breeder is not being straight with you about the striptesting, and there's only one reason not to test her dogs– she knows exactly what the test will show. My BYB's line was filled with Fanconi. My dog didn't have a chance. He striptested clear for six years. Until one day, he didn't.
I posted in your other thread about what it's like owning a Fanconi dog. I sugarcoated it. It's actually worse. If you buy this dog, I hope it works out well for both of you. But I would keep Dr. Steve Gonto's phone # and email close at hand. He may become your BFF.
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I completely understand your concerns and you want to stop people like this from breeding. I have decided to stay with this pup though. This woman is done breeding and is selling the sire. My pup is from the on site sire and dam and I am not showing or anything, just want a pet! The mother and father have only been tested for fanconi using strip tests and were negative for fanconi. The pup has had his up to date vacs and so forth. I know I sound irresponsible now, but I have decided to go with this. Me and the lady have a deal worked out where she will take the pup back in case of any problems and so forth. I am getting him nuetered around the age of 1, so no breeding. I hope you will understand and allow me to be a part of your basenji family!
I hope that you will take all this information and think about it very carefully, especially the post on your other thread about living with a Fanconi Affected Basenjis.
Are these pups even AKC registered? I do not think they are.
As was pointed out, strip testing only means at that time he/she was not spilling sugar, does not mean that he/she is not Fanconi affected and will not develope this in the future. This is a big deal, because she could have done the DNA test for 65.00 for each dog.
Showing has nothing to do with it…. these are all our pets first... if we show or do performance events that is after the fact that first and formost, they are our pets.
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Yes she said I will receive a care package that includes his AKC registration papers, sample of his food, his toy, training pads, shot records, and his eating schedule.
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lakers13, i see you're going ahead with this puppy. Please get him tested for Fanconi Syndrome as soon as possible - it's not really expensive and you will then be prepared if the result is bad. However I pray that it's good. There is plenty of information on this forum and of course nobody would refuse you advice.
That a dog is not to be bred from to me is irrelevant. It's the same dog and is to receive the same love and care.
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Welcome, lakers13. Sorry you had to be confronted by bad news almost immediately upon joining the forum, but you are still welcome even if you are unable to walk away from this breeder after it all. Puppies do something both magical and irrational to the best of us… for better or for worse. While I would also urge you to reconsider purchasing from this breeder, I would, frankly, prefer a forum member to be one of her new puppy owners, because at least I know that forum member will have some good support. I agree though that you should get your pup DNA Fanconi tested with OFA (http://www.offa.org) ASAP. It's $65 and it'll help prepare you for your puppy's future, which will hopefully be a long and happy one, regardless of his origins.
All that said, I've also been there/done that with a puppy from an irreputable source. Fanconi is probably the "worst case" scenario related to this breed, but even if the pup tests clear, it's not like everyone's warnings disappear. As an anecdotal example, my adult Shiba was stricken with unrelenting adult-onset allergies, diagnosed with hypothyroidism when he was 6 (which Basenjis are also susceptible to), and has had a pretty difficult, sharp temperament all his life, all of which might have been less of an issue if we had gotten him from a better source. But when he was a puppy, we thought ourselves lucky because he didn't have any "real" health problems. Of course we love him despite his faults. And we were so in love with him after such a short while, there was no way we could have returned him if that was even an option. I think your breeder is counting on that bond to cover her butt if/when something happens to your pup's health further down the road… you sound like you're going through with this because you're ready to take on the responsibility for another living creature, and in that respect, you're already more committed than this breeder sounds like she'll ever be.
So I'm just saying... I'm in no place to judge how "responsible" or "irresponsible" YOU are as a puppy buyer, but puppies bought under less than ideal conditions are going to test you even moreso than the average, already impish little puppy. ;) I think what comes afterwards is going to be the real test. Good luck, and please stick around!
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I truly do not understand the "I only want a pet" excuse I hear all too often. Why do people sell themselves short when they are looking for a companion animal?
I added my first basenji 13 years ago. All I wanted was a pet but I also had never owned a purebred dog before so I thought maybe a dog I could try things like agility, coursing, or obedience would be fun but really I just wanted a good pet. When I contacted the breeder, even though I had been following the litter on an email list for several weeks, I still asked her all the questions that I had researched. Were the parents health tested? How old were the parents? grandparents? greatgrandparents? If deceased, how old? what cause? I asked if the breeder was a member of a breed club. I asked what activities she participated in. I told her what I wanted. She turned around and asked me a ton of questions. We both needed to be comfortable with each other because we knew we would be stuck with each other for a long time. Health, Temperament, Conformation, and Longevity are all things she breeds for. I am glad I went to a responsible breeder. I got the dog that was right for me, he has introduced me to many things and many people. 13 years later, I still talk with his breeder on a regular basis. I know how long his sire and dam lived and what they died of. I know how his siblings are doing. All the research paid off in spades.
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Hi lakers13, goodluck with your new puppy.
i found that my first car drive home (only a 40min car drive at 9wks old) my girl cried the whole way home in her crate. - boy did i get some crazy stares from people at the traffic lights.
Keep us posted with how you go bringing your new boy home, what will his name be? and look forward to photos.
Hope you get the fanconi test done for peace of mind too :)
cheers,
Alysha -
Taylor..I just want to say this…my intentions were never to make you not feel welcome on here....not at all..everybody is welcome regrdless of where you got you little guy or gal...
Just was hoping to maybe open some eyes to what might happen..I do wish you the best and I so do hope we get to see you around here for many more years...Yes she said I will receive a care package that includes his AKC registration papers, sample of his food, his toy, training pads, shot records, and his eating schedule.
…these puppies might be AKC registerable..I know some of her dogs are not and others are...
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Taylor, let me say, I have had a loved and lost a fanconi b.
You will NOT want to give this dog back…at least, I have found few folks who could.
We all fall in love with them...not like a sweater you get at Sears...
That being said, when you love something you want it to be with you for many years.
Losing a b at the age of say 6 or 8 when you could have one who lived until 17 is a tradeoff you willing to make.
I would hope you would reconsider.
That being said, we will be here to support you when you get your new b and when you have any issues. -
I think part of the problem is that often we as future basenji owners tend to fall in love with our potential puppy before we even get them. The most recent addition to my basenjis was Zest. I would have been heartbroken if something had happened to her before I picked her up. I'd never even seen her before I picked her up (well, i saw a pic). But I was over the moon with excitement about getting a new puppy. However, having said all that, it is even more heartbreaking to loose a young dog. We lost our first malinois at 5 years old. I can only imagine how much worse all those feelings of unfairness and anger would have been if it was due to something preventable. (She literally just fell over dead. Probably heart or brain aneurysm.) And, while I've never had the misfortune of sharing my life with a Fanconi basenji, reading about the affected dogs is heartbreaking. It is a wasting type disease and many of these people see their beloved companion become mere shadows of what they once were.
Perhaps, Taylor, you could ask this breeder to test the puppies or even the sire and dam before you pick him up? I know that would be waiting a little longer before you pick up your new friend, but it may save you years of heartbreak.
And of course if you decide to do something else, i think we all can understand. It's hard to give up a puppy you've fallen in love with even if you haven't seen him yet.
You also may want to look into puppy lemon laws. I doubt Texas has anything, but I know a few states do.
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Texas currently does not have a puppy lemon law. If a suit were to be filed you'd probably have to do it under Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act.
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Lakers13 - how is your decision making going?
Please remember that regardless of your situation, we are here for you.
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Kipawa I have decided to go ahead and get this puppy. I'm on my way to Houston now. If he does ever get ill then I believe I can give him better care than anyone, so I'm up for it! However I will pray he lives long and stays healthy.
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Kipawa I have decided to go ahead and get this puppy. I'm on my way to Houston now. If he does ever get ill then I believe I can give him better care than anyone, so I'm up for it! However I will pray he lives long and stays healthy.
Please consider doing the DNA test, it is well worth the peace of mind, regardless of the results. Takes only a minute, since it is a cheek swab that you do yourself.
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You should definitnely test him. I tested both of my boys, as Trog was born before the test was created. Both of his parents tested as Carriers, but thank goodness he tested as a carrier too and not an affected. I will be testing my new pup as soon as I get her. Her mother is a clear and sire a carrier, so the worst she would be is a carrier, but I want to know her status. I have a friend whose dog tested as a carrier and has now developed fanconi, so even the blood test was not exact.
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You should definitnely test him. I tested both of my boys, as Trog was born before the test was created. Both of his parents tested as Carriers, but thank goodness he tested as a carrier too and not an affected. I will be testing my new pup as soon as I get her. Her mother is a clear and sire a carrier, so the worst she would be is a carrier, but I want to know her status. I have a friend whose dog tested as a carrier and has now developed fanconi, so even the blood test was not exact.
I am guessing that fact was reported? Any chance that the sire/dam was not the sire/dam of that dog? I know that is the first thing they check… and then they will usually rerun the test to see if they get the same results... along with that if the sire and dam are still available re-test them.
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She has rePorted it and is waiting for the lab person to return from NY to get more data the blood test was only done on her dog as the dog was from a BYB. We are hearing that there have bee a handful that tested as carrier and did develop falconi.
