Welcome to the forum! Please forgive the delay in welcomes, the forum has been hiccuping and not showing new posts for a while. Hopefully the new format will fix that!
Hiya! I'm BasenjiLuv! Can You Tell Me About This Website?
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not trying to be contrary at all (actually i know suki will eventually want a playmate), but what screams back yard breeder? nocturnal breeders has totally different names, contact info, state, etc., so i am wondering what part of sun-dance is screaming backyard breeder. actually, tanza is listed on this same page. seriously, just wondering what to look for. i realize the grammar is horrific, but i'm picky. what else is there? thanks!
Tanza is listed on the same page along with other "responsible" breeders so that people can see the difference between breeders. Often responsible breeders with advertise on many different sites NOT to compete with BYB's but to try and teach people how to fine a responsible breeder. Ones that health test before breeding and do not breed just for the sake of selling puppies. Breeders that breed to improve the breed, not just breed the same dogs over and over again every year.
Are Sun-Dance puppies AKC registered? Have they been DNA tested for Fanconi? Have their hips been done? Elbows? Have their Thyroids been tested? What is the pedigree of their breeding dogs?
I would suggest you go to this link on how to find a responsible breeder and see after all the questions are answered if Sun-Dance fits…. I would think not. http://www.tanzabasenjis.net/selectbreeder.html
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so, because they don't list the tests, akc registry, etc. in their ad, they are likely a backyard breeder. got it.
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The ad listing itself does not have enough information in it to say one way or the other what type of breeder they are. It is true that most responsible breeders will list in their ads what they test for. If you are looking to add a new puppy, it is really important to learn what to ask for and how to verify for yourself that the information they have provided is true, do searches on OFA and verify what they are testing for. Breeders that advertise Continental Kennel Club (CKC) or America's Pet Registry, Inc, (APRI) registered dogs are a huge red flad since these registries were formed because breeders did not want to comply with AKC's frequently used sire program that requires DNA testing on sires producing many litters a year or in their lifetime.
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i'm not interested in a puppy, i'm just asking questions because people said this person must be a backyard breeder because of the ad. i was just curious what, in the ad, indicated that the person is a backyard breeder. so, i didn't know if it was the website itself, or the lack of stating that they do testing, or what. i'm inclined to agree with you, that you actually can't tell from the ad alone. the original poster will have to ask the breeder some of the questions that were suggested.
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Using the information from the ad, a interested person can do a search on OFA and would find that there is not any fanconi testing information for any dogs with the SunDance kennel name. That would be a red flag.
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One flag for me would be the description of Basenjis raised in a "family setting", or calling themselves a "hobby breeder" and leaving it at that, with no mention of showing status/health tests/sire and dam's registered names, so you can look up all that publicly available information for yourself before deciding to contact the breeder. I think the idea is that if you're testing your dogs, there's no reason to hide that information, especially if the results are good! If you don't disclose this information, either the results are less than ideal, or you don't bother to do it at all.
I think descriptions like "family setting" and "hobby breeder" are well-intentioned descriptors that folks use to differentiate themselves from commercial breeders. These types of breeders probably aren't breeding for the money, but what it says to me is that they're still producing pups of questionable health status, and they're probably more casual about following up on the puppies they produced so that they can make sure their puppies aren't going into rescue, put into breeding situations, or dying of heartbreaking genetic diseases that don't show up until much later in life. They might be perfectly nice people, but I personally don't think you can make an ethical choice to breed dogs without rigorous follow-up, and so the more negative term "backyard breeder" applies.
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Okay I caused confusion. The ad I said was byb I saw, but then glanced at TOP ad when put kennel and posted the wrong kennel name. The byb was so obvious to me.
Do you see ANYTHING in this long post about showing, testing, bloodlines, health etc? Um no. Note it says "dog business." NO RESPONSIBLE BREEDER calls their passion a business. This person breeds to sell animals, pure and simple.
So… to give benefit of doubt, I looked for any other postings by this person... sales ad, that's it. UNLIKE Tanza who not only had responsible ad, but you can find all over demonstrating her reputation, commitment and quality.
Hi my name is Glenn and my wifes name is Virgina, We raise Basenjis in S.W. Michigan,Grand Haven area, Are kennel name is Sun-Dance kennels, We started raseing basenjis about 8 years ago after my parents got out of the dog business in which they raised basenjis for over 25 years and i have had basenjis as pets for 25 years, The love of this breed started with the very first basenji we ever had or seen for that matter,So are goal is to keep breeding these dogs as great family pets and to get more people to understand the breed. So every Dec we should have a litter or two of brindles and Red&White, And if anyone needs more infomation on this breed or would like to be on a list for upcoming litters please contact anytime at
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I would ask where they obtained their breeding dogs. Some get them from auctions, newspaper ads, etc. Why did the breeder decide to breed those specific dogs? Was it to improve the breed? Is the breeder keeping a pup or are they selling all of them? Do they do any activities with their Bs-showing, lure coursing, agility, etc. Even if the dogs have been Fanconi tested, I would not want to buy without other health tests done, especially eyes and thyroid. I have had more rescue Bs have eye problems than have Fanconi. A Basenji also needs to have a good temperament.
I would want to take a good look at the sire and dam and see their movement. I have a commercial breeding dog rescue and she is longer than she is tall and has poor movement-waddles when she walks and should have never been bred.
I would want to know if they have a contract, what is in it and will they take back a dog if something happens. If the pup is not breeding quality, is spaying/neutering required.
I would verify they are not USDA licensed-a big red flag!
Jennifer
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Thanks for talking about eye problems, I totally forgot that on my list of health tests in my other post….
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Yes, they are AKC puppies, look here: http://www.qualitydogs.com/141414/BSNJ/memberprofile.html
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Yes, they are AKC puppies, look here: http://www.qualitydogs.com/141414/BSNJ/memberprofile.html
AKC doesn't mean that it is a responsible breeder, many BYB's and Puppy Mills have AKC registrations… doesn't mean they are health tested.....
Or in the case of many Puppy Mills, that the AKC registrations even belong to that particular dog unless they have been required to DNA test the sire and dam with AKC
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You have a lot of good advice here. I hope you use it to check out where ever you get your next b from.
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Welcome, BasenjiLuv! While I haven't read through this entire thread, it sounds like your heart is set on a certain color/sex… have you considered a rescue dog? There are many basenjis that need homes right now... on the BRAT website (www.Basenjirescue.org), there is an adorable 3 year old red and white girl that needs a home right now. And she's ready to steal your heart, and she is a "steal" at $250…
[URL="http://www.basenjirescue.org/DOGS/MI/MI-
Mia.asp"]http://www.basenjirescue.org/DOGS/MI/MI-Mia.asp
Whatever you decide, we are always happy to welcome (future) basenji lovers!
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i am removing my original post since i got such a nasty response from debra, who turned everything i said around. obviously
you are not allowed to have an opinion on this forum, and if it isnt exactly what some of these breeders or owners
agree with you get chastised and humiliated on the forum. i will keep my mouth shut from now on. i have a beautiful
basenji and i am very happy with her, that is all i will say. also i am not the one that said overboard on health , debra, it was the breeder i was
talking to that said it, so dont take your anger about HER COMMENT!!!! out on me. and to call me buttercup in that rude manner
unbelievable. oh and also debra my girls mother and father are both on the akc registry because i pulled it up by there names
and both parents showed up, and i got my akc papers on my girl also. i just called akc and they pulled glenn up also and show
his dogs registered and even pulled up my girls litter. so i have no idea what your looking under saying his dogs are not registered
but they are registered per akc -
Whoever the breeder was comparing having children to having dogs is someone you need to never talk to again. Either a byb/pm or so impressively uninformed you could never get her up to speed. The comment about "overboard on dogs" has me set off, so buckle up buttercup, my response is not a happy one. That comment disparages GOOD breeders who do it RIGHT, not "overboard." It dismisses the love and responsible actions of people who feel dogs have the right to be produced with the best POSSIBLE chance (not guarantee, but chance) of GOOD HEALTH– not just for the dog, but for the people who love them. And to toss that off as "overboard" makes me want to throw up. You get a dog with severe problems, who suffers because of some NOT-overboard breeder and talk to me about how RESPONSIBLE is "overboard."
First, if you have some horrible genetic disorder, you actually should consider about producing children. But that aside, we have children to keep and love, not to sell. Comparing having a child to breeding puppies to sell is despicable.
Second, no one needs to breed animals. But if you are GOING to, damn straight you need to breed the HEALTHIEST best examples possible. They have no choice in being bred, no choice in the puppies they produce, and no control over what happens to those puppies if some asshat just breeds and is happy with whatever they get because, oh wait, they aren't the ones who suffer and they sure aren't going to put some $10,000 trust funds for the pups to cover medical expenses for life caused by their lack of freaking care. They are scum to produce such dogs, people who buy them KNOWING they are not health testing and doing it right are scum to put money in their pockets and help them keep doing it. Now, most people do not KNOW and buy stupidly. But this is 2012, not 1970 before the internet. So today, I am sorry but it is WILLFUL ignorance. Ten, just 10 minutes, of searching a breed club or AKC would give you info on RESPONSIBLE breeding. But nope, people want it now, they want it easy and they want to pretend innocence. I call BS.
As for YOUR breeder, HELLO. You said you didn't dismiss just because they don't breed. But you admit they are just NOW testing for Fanconi. Linkage test been around a while. What about other health testing... give your dog's name and reg number, lets see if they have ANY testing done. Somehow, I bet not. So in my most debraly of mornings, let me suggest you did in fact KNOW the person was not doing it right, but you wanted a pup and you got it. I don't give a flying fig if your dog LOOKS like the most spectacular winning dog in history. That isn't the point, and you actually know it isn't.
As for the kennel, lol, same ad they had 2 yrs ago when this started:
http://www.breeders.net/detail.php?id=129367
THE AD: Hi my name is Glenn and my wifes name is Virgina, We raise Basenjis in S.W. Michigan,Grand Haven area, Our kennel name is Sun-Dance kennels, We started raseing basenjis about 15 years ago after my parents got out of the dog business in which they raised basenjis for over 25 years, and i have had basenjis as pets for 30 years, The love of this breed started with the very first basenji we ever had or seen for that matter,So are goal is to keep breeding these dogs as great family pets and to get more people to understand the breed. So every Dec we should have a litter or two of brindles and Red&White, And if anyone needs more infomation on this breed or would like to be on a list for upcoming litters please contact anytime <<No names of their dogs so you can't actually look them up. Nada about testing of any type, their parents were in the BUSINESS for 25 yrs, now they are.
Sooo, just to be thorough, let us assume they have any dogs under their kennel name since normal kennels at least name their own dogs they keep with their name (and having all the puppies is not uncommon at all!).
I went to OFA. So I did Sun Dance, Sun-Dance and Sundance, basenji, and ANY ofa testing… One dog born in the early 1990s. That's it.
http://www.offa.org/results.html?num=
istrar=&namecontains=N&part=Sun+Dance&breed%5B%5D=BJ&breedlist=ALL&variety%5B%5D=&sex=&birthday_start_month=&birthday_start_year=&birthday_end_month=&birthday_end_year=&birthday=and=N&rptdte_start_month=&rptdte_start_year=&rptdte_end_month=&rptdte_end_year=&rptdte=&submit=Begin+Search 2 dogs,Oddly, not one "Sun Dance" dog on AKC registration. One "Sun-Dance"… Female / DEC-30-1968
If you want to get a dog from a byb/pm breeder (and frankly, a family producing puppies for sell for over 15 yrs is beyond just a backyard breeder imho), fine. But don't try to paint them as responsible or blow off the need for BEING responsible because the person is chummy with you or your dog looks nice. Give me their dogs real names, prove they do health testing not just FINALLY starting Fanconi, and we can debate if showing is the criteria. Right now, doesn't seem showing is even a blip on their issue.
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wow i thought the whole point of this forum was to have an opinion. if i knew someone was
going to get this nasty as you have i wouldnt have said anything. just because you obviously
know this guy personally which you must since you are calling him a back yard breeder without
even meeting him or his dogs doesnt mean you have to snap my head off because we wnt to meet
him twice and he spent alot of time educating us and we got to meet his whole family and dogs
so we felt comfortable. doesnt mean anyone else has to go to him. but obviously you know him better
than me so i apologize for setting your angry button off. guess this forum is not to discuss, but to embarass new
basenji owners and make them feel stupid. thank you -
IMO the biggest give away that this is a BYB is the comment "starting to test for Fanconi"….. And nothing about any other health testing. I hope that you have had your pup DNA tested as there is no excuse for anyone that decides to breed not to health test first.
You see this debate all the time about pets vs showing.... keep in mind that responsible breeders really breed for themselves, to improve the breed, to show the offspring. That said, breeders don't keep everything they breed, therefore many are placed in pet homes. I know mine are. If I get lucky and someone is interested in maybe showing or doing performance that is a bonus. I just don't get people that "claim" I only want to breed pets, like responsible breeders don't? These Basenjis are our pets first .....
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i did have her tested pat she is a carrier not affected, and now i have been educated. i like
the way you answerd me, thank you for not making me feel stupid like debra down south did.
i now know what to look for in the future, and i appreciate your comments. -
Whoever the breeder was comparing having children to having dogs is someone you need to never talk to again. Either a byb/pm or so impressively uninformed you could never get her up to speed. The comment about "overboard on dogs" has me set off, so buckle up buttercup, my response is not a happy one. That comment disparages GOOD breeders who do it RIGHT, not "overboard." It dismisses the love and responsible actions of people who feel dogs have the right to be produced with the best POSSIBLE chance (not guarantee, but chance) of GOOD HEALTH– not just for the dog, but for the people who love them. And to toss that off as "overboard" makes me want to throw up. You get a dog with severe problems, who suffers because of some NOT-overboard breeder and talk to me about how RESPONSIBLE is "overboard."
First, if you have some horrible genetic disorder, you actually should consider about producing children. But that aside, we have children to keep and love, not to sell. Comparing having a child to breeding puppies to sell is despicable.
Second, no one needs to breed animals. But if you are GOING to, damn straight you need to breed the HEALTHIEST best examples possible. They have no choice in being bred, no choice in the puppies they produce, and no control over what happens to those puppies if some asshat just breeds and is happy with whatever they get because, oh wait, they aren't the ones who suffer and they sure aren't going to put some $10,000 trust funds for the pups to cover medical expenses for life caused by their lack of freaking care. They are scum to produce such dogs, people who buy them KNOWING they are not health testing and doing it right are scum to put money in their pockets and help them keep doing it. Now, most people do not KNOW and buy stupidly. But this is 2012, not 1970 before the internet. So today, I am sorry but it is WILLFUL ignorance. Ten, just 10 minutes, of searching a breed club or AKC would give you info on RESPONSIBLE breeding. But nope, people want it now, they want it easy and they want to pretend innocence. I call BS.
As for YOUR breeder, HELLO. You said you didn't dismiss just because they don't breed. But you admit they are just NOW testing for Fanconi. Linkage test been around a while. What about other health testing... give your dog's name and reg number, lets see if they have ANY testing done. Somehow, I bet not. So in my most debraly of mornings, let me suggest you did in fact KNOW the person was not doing it right, but you wanted a pup and you got it. I don't give a flying fig if your dog LOOKS like the most spectacular winning dog in history. That isn't the point, and you actually know it isn't.
As for the kennel, lol, same ad they had 2 yrs ago when this started:
http://www.breeders.net/detail.php?id=129367
THE AD: Hi my name is Glenn and my wifes name is Virgina, We raise Basenjis in S.W. Michigan,Grand Haven area, Our kennel name is Sun-Dance kennels, We started raseing basenjis about 15 years ago after my parents got out of the dog business in which they raised basenjis for over 25 years, and i have had basenjis as pets for 30 years, The love of this breed started with the very first basenji we ever had or seen for that matter,So are goal is to keep breeding these dogs as great family pets and to get more people to understand the breed. So every Dec we should have a litter or two of brindles and Red&White, And if anyone needs more infomation on this breed or would like to be on a list for upcoming litters please contact anytime <<No names of their dogs so you can't actually look them up. Nada about testing of any type, their parents were in the BUSINESS for 25 yrs, now they are.
Sooo, just to be thorough, let us assume they have any dogs under their kennel name since normal kennels at least name their own dogs they keep with their name (and having all the puppies is not uncommon at all!).
I went to OFA. So I did Sun Dance, Sun-Dance and Sundance, basenji, and ANY ofa testing… One dog born in the early 1990s. That's it.
http://www.offa.org/results.html?num=istrar=&namecontains=N&part=Sun+Dance&breed%5B%5D=BJ&breedlist=ALL&variety%5B%5D=&sex=&birthday_start_month=&birthday_start_year=&birthday_end_month=&birthday_end_year=&birthday=and=N&rptdte_start_month=&rptdte_start_year=&rptdte_end_month=&rptdte_end_year=&rptdte=&submit=Begin+Search 2 dogs,Oddly, not one "Sun Dance" dog on AKC registration. One "Sun-Dance"… Female / DEC-30-1968
If you want to get a dog from a byb/pm breeder (and frankly, a family producing puppies for sell for over 15 yrs is beyond just a backyard breeder imho), fine. But don't try to paint them as responsible or blow off the need for BEING responsible because the person is chummy with you or your dog looks nice. Give me their dogs real names, prove they do health testing not just FINALLY starting Fanconi, and we can debate if showing is the criteria. Right now, doesn't seem showing is even a blip on their issue.
by the way better check again glenns dogs are registered with akc i called akc myself. my girls litter is on there as well as her parents
and they said he has many other basenjis registered besides my girls mom and dad. as they explained to me you cant register a puppy unless parents are registered which i pretty much already knew but just wanted to call to verify since you said his dogs are not showing
registered. you must have spelled his name one, again goes to show everybody makes mistakes…...
