Baron wont eat????

[dmey]

Thats good news, hopefully he will continue to improve. You should try that recipe because , and its only been two days so I dont know if he is going to get tired of it, he is usually interested in new things for a day or two, but he is really liking it, he gulps it down and wants more!!! Thanks a lot Sharron!!

[lvoss]

@dmey:

All right, I made the recipe,… Not sure about all the proportions because I didn't make so much and I wasn't sure how much #10 of cheap hamburger meat was or a jar of wheat germ , cause it came in a bag here, but, I more or less mixed it up into a thick paste.

#10 is 10 pounds, they just used the pound key instead of spelling it out. Be careful feeding too much, Satin Balls are very rich and you don't want to cause pancreatitis. Also, they really aren't meant to fed long term so you will still want to find a food that he eats well and does well on.

[tanza]

And Satin Balls came to being as a trick that Show Handlers used to put "quick" weight on a dog for the ring. Not as a way to generally put weight on a dog.

[dmey]

Hi, I was going to start a new thread but since you mention that, i will go ahead and ask you here. I am very worried now, because Ayos tests results came back and I dont have them physically but here is what my vet told me she was concerned about.
The urine density was 1.058
the PH was 8
there where 2+ proteins
tripple sulfates
and traces of Glucose!!!

I really have no clue about PH or density but when she mentioned glucose y got really scared.
She thinks it has to do with his diet, and when she heard from her assitant that I mentioned the satin balls , she thinks the tests could have come up like that because he had that the night before and the morning of the tests. She says a diet really high in protein and also excesive excercise could cause that.
His blood test was all normal and so was his "coprologico) i dont know how to say that in english, they tested his stool. and it was fine as well.
She suggested I stop the satin balls and give him the regular kiblble and then do some more tests….
What do you think? I know Fanconi has to do with glucose in urne, but, he is only 11 months, he is supposed to be clear from being affected because his father is clear.. But i dont know, I never heard about high protein causing that in their urine!!
PLease let me know what you think and what you sugest I should do. My vet is my cousin and I trust her and her capacity but she is just now learning about basenjis and is reading up on Fanconi syndrome and everything so any input from you would be really appreciated.
thanks

[lvoss]

Has Ayo been tested for Fanconi? Dogs who are spilling sugar and protein in the urine with normal blood glucose are showing positive for Faconi and should have blood gases run.

[dmey]

I dont understand. I thought Ayo could not be affected by Fanconi… No he has not been tested , i am not sure they do that test here. His parets were tested. Is there no other reason that could be the cause of that??....

[dmey]

Here are his parents tests results from OFA

BENI KUKUTUT OF DELOUISE
BENI
M BJ
HP23934001 Fanconi DNA linkage Received: 02/01/2010
Processed: 02/04/2010
Test: FANCONI SYNDROME
Results: PROBABLE CLEAR/NORMAL

JUBILEE RUWA JOY
JUBILEE
F BJ
A06XYDG39778D
Fanconi DNA linkage
Received: 03/09/2010
Processed: 03/11/2010
Test: FANCONI SYNDROME
Results: PROBABLY AFFECTED

[tanza]

So by the results of the above tests, your boy would be a carrier… UNLESS there was a lab error with the Sire or that is really NOT his sire.... DNA parentage testing would have to be done. And since there is always room for human error and seeing that the Dam is tested Affected... I would suggest that you do the DNA test on your boy, because if it comes back affected, the I would question the parentage of the breeding.

Does the breeder of the litter have any other males around?

By the way, the DNA test is done by you, not a Vet. You order the cheek swabs from OFA and then you swab the dog's cheek and send the sample to OFA.

[dmey]

Ok, I was reading about it and plan to do the test on Ayo,… but assuming that the parentage is correct, because there were no other males around ,.. and assuming that the tests were correct than he can at worst be a carrier right?.. Also, I guess another important thing is wether or not the presence of protein and traces of glucose in the urinalysis could have other causes , like diet for example.. I am planning on doing his test from OFA.
However in the meantime i wanted to try to understand a little more. because there are things that dont match, like for example , the fact that the sire is probably clear (assuming it is correct) an also that i understood that even if affected it wouldnt start showing up until later in life , not so young he is only 11 months old. and also , wouldnt there be other elements tht would be leaking into the urine, not just glucose and protein.. I guess the important thing to find out , (in the meantime ) is wether there could be other cuases for that to appear on a urinalysis. Also I believe the strip tested negative for glucose, only traces found in the chemical analysis??? Its all very confusing to me. I will do a glucose in blood test and another urinalysis and I will also send to get the testing kit form OFA.
I am very worried, but at the same time, i have a feeling that its not Fanconi... I cant say why.....
hopefully I am right.
thanks for all the input

[tanza]

Fanconi usually shows up between 3 and 7yrs. However, it can show up any time and yes, even as early as 11 months or as late as 10 to 12 yrs.

Sugar in the urine is typically the very first sign and at very early onset, they can strip test negative for a few days, even weeks… and then one day test positive. One reason that it is really recommended that strip testing be done a few days in a row. One dog that I know of was spilling sugar for a couple of days, then nothing for 6 months, then every 3 or 4 days, then every day.

Certainly it could be something else and all avenues should be looked at...

[DebraDownSouth]

The urine density was 1.058
the PH was 8
there where 2+ proteins
tripple sulfates
and traces of Glucose!!!

She thinks it has to do with his diet, and when she heard from her assitant that I mentioned the satin balls , she thinks the tests could have come up like that because he had that the night before and the morning of the tests. She says a diet really high in protein and also excesive excercise could cause that.

If the strip is clear, honestly while I think the dog absolutely needs to be tested for Fanconi… please follow your gut and keep looking at other areas. The dumping glucose concerns me but not sure if trace is enough to worry.

I called my research vet but she wasn't in to ask about those numbers. I left a message so if she calls back I'll post.

However, some thoughts. Always have dogs go in fasting blood work, it's more accurate. If the dog ate and something is wrong on the results, you are where you are... needing to do it again.

The dog hasn't been on Satin balls long enough to be an issue (other than right after eating). But as already said, they are a short term boost, never intended for long term. I would really ask about cyproheptadine to boost appetite and feed high quality kibble, throw in an egg and 1 tb oil a day to get his weight up slowly without the grains and sugars in the satinball.

Dogs are carnivores... high protein is rarely a problem. Many people feed raw. Trace of glucose may not be issues especially with you feeding satinballs; but again, you need to fast from midnight and retest.

Edited, vet called: 7 normal, higher pH can cause crystals, may be diet relate
Proteins dumping and losing sugar means a kidney issue, but since blood work normal sounds like may have done in-house testing, may want to send out to be sure. A wicked infection or bladder/kidney stones could cause it.
Sulfates did you mean phosphates?.. can be urine pH also.

The kidneys should not be dumping either protein or sugar, even trace. She recommends ultrasound of the kidneys.

:::::::::::
Phil, how is Baron doing. Btw, love his picture… soft spot always for the red and whites.

[dmey]

Thanks a lot debra and every one for their help. I will tell my vet what you think. I think she mentioned something about crystals??? I am sorry i really dont even have all the info clear. I will tell her about an ultrasound. I know she had them sent to a lab, though, but i still feel that there is something weird with the test…. I will retest, i tried to find the strips for testing the urine here and apparently that does not exist in dominican repulic... go figure,... so i will have to order some from the US, and also i am trying to go on the offa site to get the dna test swab thing sent to me.
I really appreciate the help, ...i am really sad... I just I thought that because of his parents tests that he would be safe ,...... and I hate not knowing, i couldnt sleep last night, worrying, thinking about all this, and I am more confused today.

[DebraDownSouth]

When I am stressed, I don't retain what is said so I understand your confusion. I'd call the vet back with a list of questions in hand and jot things down. You might call a local pharmacy. None in my town stock them, but they can order for me.

Another source, Amazon.com.

Don't be sad, you are doing your best! Even if it is Fanconi, dogs can live good lives if found early and controlled.

[tanza]

If it were my Basenji, I would not go through the expense of an ultrasound until you rule out Fanconi. Does your Vet have access to to blood gases? Or can she get the local hospital to run them? Have you given her the Fanconi Protocol?

Also you can email Dr Gonto or she can with his test results, he is more then happy to review and help anyone with a possible Fanconi dog… His email is on the protocol and you can find a copy at www.basenji.org if you don't have it.

[dmey]

Thanks debra .. will do. I will talk to her tomorrow and see if we come uo with a plan to figure this thing out. .. I feeling that when we test again everything will be clear… .
I am having trouble with the offa site it wont load on my computer, its been like that all day. i wil try again tomorrow..

[dmey]

Thanks a lot Pat, Ive sent her all the info I have found. i will talk to her tomorrow about retesting and doing a blood glucose exam and going from there. I will send her that link as well thank you!!!

[tanza]

@dmey:

Thanks a lot Pat, Ive sent her all the info I have found. i will talk to her tomorrow about retesting and doing a blood glucose exam and going from there. I will send her that link as well thank you!!!

Yes, it is important that she read the protocol and again, Dr Gonto is always available for a consult… I have had many a Vet spend hours emailing or talking to him.... and owners too... as he will take the time to tell us owners in our terms what everything means.

Here is the direct link to the Protocol

http://www.basenji.org/ClubDocs/fanconiprotocol2003.pdf

[lvoss]

@dmey:

I really appreciate the help, …i am really sad... I just I thought that because of his parents tests that he would be safe ,...... and I hate not knowing, i couldnt sleep last night, worrying, thinking about all this, and I am more confused today.

Since it is a linkage test, it is still recommended to strip test. Though extremely rare, less than 1%, dogs can test as one thing but in reality be something else. In these cases the offspring's results will also appear wrong because the parent's markers are not correct for marking what gene they actually have.

[The_Red_Baron]

@DebraDownSouth:

Phil, how is Baron doing. Btw, love his picture… soft spot always for the red and whites.

Baron is doing much better, thanks for asking. I switched his food and am feeding him in conjunction with EVO Redmeat some Trippett New Zealand Green Venison tripe. He seems to like it very much and am in the process of incorporating Orijen into his diet.

Scheduled feeding times helped a lot.

-Phil

[DebraDownSouth]

Oh GOOD! Glad he is doing better.