@DebraDownSouth Thanks Debra, you've given me a lot to think about. I think I'll start immediately with the "leave it" training at home and then get in touch with some trainers/behaviorists in my area. I'm not expecting any miracles here but, like you said, even just learning to ignore other dogs would make such a difference.
I failed as a mother and a dog owner…long...positive advice needed :(
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Shoot, the person I was thinking of is in the Twin Cities area…so not much help. I will see if I can find some other contacts.
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Thank you for taking the time to write me such a thoughtful response. I know you are very experienced, and a mom, so you were one of the people I was most hoping would respond. Even though I am not active here much since Colton came, I have been a part of this community for years now, and have really gotten to see the wonderful advice many people have…thank you so much for that.
That's too bad the person you were thinking of is not from our area, if you do know of any resources PLEASE send them my way. Not that it is an acceptable excuse, but that's part of the reason why I didn't pursue things more months ago, I never seemed to find any good people to contact in my area. If we decide to keep Tosca, though, something obviously HAS to be done this time, no more putting it off.
I am glad to hear you think we might still be able to work with Tosca, though I am still not sure what we are going to do. It's so hard to talk to anyone in real life about the subject, also, since everyone is so quick to judge, and most people don't understand dogs the way people on here do. I think if we do decide to keep Tosca, the majority of people I know in person will think we are insane.
ALso, thank you for not judging me...though I'll fully admit this was a lack of proper parenting, I am glad to hear you don't think I'm a horrible mom
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I agree with Andrea, don't beat yourself up. And I don't think anyone else here wants to either.
Shawn Smith might be able to help. http://www.custompetservices.com/about-custom-pet-services.html She used to be involved with BCOSW/BCOA and is a trainer and knows basenjis. She is closer to Whitewater I think, so not super close to Sheboygan, but maybe she can recommend someone in your area. Otherwise, I can definitely ask someone else in BCOSW if they can recommend any trainers.
Clay
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Thank you, I will look this over and contact her…if nothing else just to speak with her if possible, and see what she suggests. If you do know of any more places in my area, please do send them my way
If you are able to give it out, do you have any contact info for BCSOW? I looked on their site, but couldn't find a phone number or anything. I found email links, but they didn't work with the way I have my computer set up, I couldn't see the actual email addresses, just the links, which didn't work for me.
I just wish I had seen more what happened, so I could get better help/insight from a trainer. I am thinking Colton just startled her somehow, but I wish I knew if it were resource guarding or something like that...I don't know what she would have been guarding in the place it happened, but you never know...maybe there was a piece of food on the floor that I missed or something. Either way, I am anxious to at least speak to a professional. As great as it is to post on here, it will be easier and even more helpfuul to explain exactly what happened, and discuss the situation in a live conversation. -
We don't have a general contact email on the site yet, but you can email Lisa Marshall, who is our club president. She would be happy to help (and probably would contact Shawn, actually). If you can't get to her email address on the http://www.bcosw.org/contact.html page like you said, try the specialty contacts page which has another link to her email. http://www.bcosw.org/2011BCOANational/Contacts.html
Otherwise, I can have Alex give you my email address and I can send it to you that way.
Clay
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I tried the second site, but still couldn't get to it…it just has the person's name, and when you click on the name, it's supposed to put their email address into a message for you. I don't have this set up on my computer, so when I click the name, it says I have no default email client or something like that
I have tried setting that up in the past, but using Yahoo email, I couldn't figure out how to do it...
So, if you don't mind, that would be great if Alex could send me your email, and I can get in touch with you that way.
I don't remember, because it's been awhile since I've been more active here, but are private messages back? Is it against TOS to give personal contact information there?
Whatever is easiest Just let me know...thanks again for your help, I am anxious to talk to someone in person and see what they recommend also.
Have a great day! -
When you hover you mouse over the person's name, if you look down in lower bar of browser it will say the email address but only as long as you are hovering on the link.
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I asked Alex to send you my email address, so you should have that if what lvoss suggested doesn't work for some reason.
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I am uber responsible about dogs and toddlers. I have dogs (chows and rotties) who could kill a child. And yet, I once came out of the bathroom to find my child sitting with my rottie, her head wrapped in a blanket and … I kid you not... Qtips stuck up each nostril.
My point? We all make mistakes. Anyone who says they don't hasn't lived very long, is delusional, or a liar.
Fortunately, I had raised the rottie right. And I believe there are things you can do to change things soon. Once your child is old enough.. and that may be in as little as a year ... he becomes the one and only giver of food. No one ever feeds the dog but him. He also becomes the person to let her outside and in. You would be amazed how fast a dog will see even a toddler as higher in the pack if they control those things.
If there is a university vet school near you, call for a behaviorist consultation.
In the mean time, crate her when you can't actively watch her. Or, get a basket muzzle for her to wear when she has to be around him. She won't die, removes the worry. But absolute supervision is critical.
I am not sure about BRAT's policy on taking a dog that has bitten but sadly <putting on="" flame="" proof="" clothing="">I do know what many rescues do and what I sadly believe all should... dogs that have bitten, no matter the reason, should be kept out of rescues. Sadly if you know a dog has bitten, and it doesn't matter WHY, if that dog bites again the person placing the dog can be sued. It isn't worth risking a rescue being shut down to save one dog, however innocent.
Yes, you should have gotten help with the food issues before. But guess what? It is not too late to work on it. Understand this, and hopefully explain to your husband. Food aggression is NORMAL for dogs. Dogs that are not protective of food starve in the wild. We work on food issues from birth, we train it out of them. But it is normal. Really it is. Fortunately most dogs learn that humans are a food source. Unfortunately when small children are involved they also must learn that even if a human TAKES or bothers the food, they don't get to respond.
Mary Woodward is a friend, and trainer. Sadly she is in DE so of no help individually, but her pages can help you understanding how to turn the behaviors around.
http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_Leader2.htmlKathy Diamond Davis is another buddy, and writer. You can write her directly, tell her I sent you. KDiamondD@aol.com
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1462&S=1&EVetID=0
And like the rest said, stop beating yourself up. ((hugs))</putting>
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Hi..my sweeties, Lucy (basenji) & Ella (granddaughter) are the best of friends…NOW. Lucy was very grumpy when awakened or "loved on" when eating. She has grown out of most of the grumpiness! I worked on telling her OFF, when Ella came to sit with me..she grumbled & sometimes would "strike" with clenched teeth, but she did get off. We then invited her back up, & she found a comfy place, on our laps to sit & get scratched. Ella (now 6, also) has gotten very good at the off & the hours of scratching Lucy's head & ears...I swear she purrs. With her food...I would hold her bowl & ask her to sit..& wait. I then would put the bowl down..only if she held it. Then while she was eating I would position myself in front of her bowl...& she would sit or lay down & wait till I gave the okay. This took time & nerves of STEEL with a basenji looking at you sideways & being very still, ready to strike. Today all is good, & Ella LOVES Lucy & vice a versa!
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Thanks again everyone! I called Shawn today, and left a voicemail…she called me back but we can't talk till tomorrow. She was hesitant to help because of distance, but said she would do what she could, and she is looking for someone in my area. I am anxious to talk to her tomorrow, hopefully I can get some good information
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I agree with Andrea. Tosca was correcting. Sadly, a baby's skin isn't protected by fur nor does a baby have the reflexes of a puppy who would have been diving for cover at the first hint of snarl.
I'm so sorry that Colton was bitten. I imagine that was terrifying to you as a mom. It was a mistake. That happens. Everyone is lucky that it wasn't worse.
Colton could have bumped her. You will never know what occurred. Now to do what you can to prevent it from ever happening again.
Hang in there. Reaching out and asking for help was a HUGE step! -
I do hope whatever trainer your able to get, can help you work with your b in your home.
Its always best if that can happen. -
I really have nothing further to add and I'mm sure with the help you're getting this can be resolved. I agree with what has already been said and that it was purely a reprimand and natural to Tosca. As the others have said there is no point beating yourself up about something that could have happened to any one. I once adopted a dog who when he came treeated my small children as people to be disciplined when he thought they were naughty (often just invading his space)
It took us exactly a year to resolve the whole thing mainly by establishing the childrens control by hand feeding him (they took turns) Until we considered him reliable we kept a basket muzzle on him but didn't separate him from the children. It was also a matter of teaching the children too to respect his space. I know your little one is as yet too young to expect him to understand but as somebody else said time will resolve this and not much either.
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Just wondering how things are going?
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Thanks for asking
Things are going ok…Colton is healing well, he got his stitches out yesterday, so he no longer looks like Chucky
You can definitely still tell it was a bite, though, which is embarrassing when I take him anywhere.
Tosca is doing ok too...her vet visits have been fine (we have to go 3x in 10 days per law) but she is going crazy with no walks for 10 days. Monday can't come fast enough in that regard!
It hasn't been too bad, though, keeping them apart. It sucks, but it's been managable with rawhides, and rotating her between outside, and up/down with DH or I, whoever doesn't have Colton at the moment.
I have called 2 behaviorists, but so far we are playing phone tag. One I am hoping to talk to on Sunday, the other might have to wait until after the weekend. I was sick Tuesday and Wednesday so I didn't get calling as quickly as I should have. The first was recommended by Shawn Smith, and the second from my vet. After I speak to them in person, I'll try to decide who would be better for our situation. Hopefully we can get whoever it is in quickly and get working on this...so far it's been manageable, but certainly not easy. Especially with winter coming, and we can't put Tosca outside as much.
So overall we are managing just fine, and waiting for more news...I'll update again soon Thanks to everyone who helped me...it's great to have such wonderful support! -
Do you not have a large crate for Tosca?
Not sure what kind of rawhide, but I am of the "should be banned" group. One of my worse experiences with dogs was watching a dog strangle and die a horrible death with FIVE of us trying to hold him down to get the wet sticky rawhide chunk out. It was traumatic to put it mildly.
http://www.ehow.com/facts_5901278_bad-bones-long-period-time_.html -
Let me know how your consult goes with the trainer
you can email me at quercusbasenjis at gmail dot com -
Thanks Quercus…if you don't mind, I will do that
Also, if you don't mind, I might email you and ask you which seems better. I have one name I got from Shawn Smith, but she admitted she doesn't know this person in real life. I also got another name from Tosca's vet. Her vet is not all that familiar with Basenjis, but said she thought hers would be better because she had heard of the person from Shawn, but thought hers would be better for aggression issues. Both the vet and Shawn told me to look at their certifications and decide, but I have no idea what I am looking for.
Therefore, if things are still unclear after speaking to these people on the phone, I might ask your opinion if that's okDebraDownSouth...we do have a large crate, but we can't keep her in there all the time. We already work full time, so I can't imagine locking her up for so long, that's no life for Tosca either. As for the rawhides, I know they are not the safest thing, but we take what precautions we can. She only chews them for awhile each day, not hours on end. Also she is supervised, and I am watching for her to bite off any big chunks and things like that. I often have treats nearby and "trade" her if she gets a chunk off. I know they are scary, when we first got Tosca and didn't know any better, we let her have them and didn't take chunks away, and she did start choking once. Luckily DH was able to get it out just fine. Right now, I think with our precautions the benefits outweigh the risks, but that's just me. I know a lot of people use them, and others are hesitant
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Jylly18…. I think you are doing all the right things to work through this!
