I agree with you Lisa, at least give then the chance to do the right thing and contact the breeder about rehoming… Of course they (the breeder) would not be "paying" for the bitch.... if they did agree to take her back.
And I find it really difficult to "swallow" that this bitch, is being sold intact (not to mention the price...yikes)... for yet another BYB or PM to take her and breed her to death.....
And this is the same person, I believe looking at the older posts that was advised to really think carefully before bring in another bitch to the house ......
Yes, this is true. Also she says on her website that this girl is nippy when "spanked". I am not sure why she is using physical punishment on this girl but this is exactly why punishment based techniques are not recommended in the training of any dog and can be especially bad for basenjis.
I have contacted the breeder. she said she will talk to her daughter but she wont give me a puppy or a refund. I paid nearly 1200 for her, I dont want to just "give" her back as I am a very poor person and it took me 3 months to save all that up, giving payments and all. I am sorry if that sounds bad but i think that trying to get some of my money back is not so horrible.
as far as her being sold with papers, i know alot of people are against that but if i start to get to know the new owner and feel they are acceptable then i would allow it, however i would look into the home extensivly and make sure they are a good home. But even if i said no to the breeding they still could breed her and id have no say once i sold her. and she is already registered, i did it myself so how to i make it limited? or is that even possible after its all been done?
anyways id take less if i found the right home i just am not going to give her away, that would be stupid. im sorry if ppl dont agree with that
It is not the papers that is the problem, it is that you are placing her intact. If you had a contract and it said you have to return her if it didn'twork out then that is what you need to do. You may be out money and perhaps the breeder can offer a partial refund if and when they are able to place the girl. If she is really a poor fit for your household then you are doing yourself and your family a disservice keeping her. This is especially true if she is nipping at your son.
The responsible thing is to give her back to the breeder (provided the breeder will take her back)…. and if you are out the money, so be it. If the pictures posted above are of the puppy you are wanting to place, she is not show quality, nor is the pedigree show quality... not to mention that there has been no health testing to speak of...
And getting another puppy, IMO is a poor choice.... You say that you want a puppy that is 8wks so that you "can" raise it the way. There is NO guarentee that a puppy will fit any better with a pack and in 9 to 12 months you could very well have the same problems all over again. Then what?
By the way, I see that you have a link on your site to my site, please remove it as I did not give permission for you to have this link on your site.
Ivoss: she didnt have me sign a contract saying to give her back. I signed a health guarentee saying she would replace her if she came down with anything but she didnt have a contract.
Tanza: the breeder is talking with her family and if they will take her back then fine. I will. and I know how to raise dogs, im not trying to be rude but it insults me that you are like…idk however you put that part about the puppy growing up was very rude to me. Maybe you didnt mean it, maybe you did but i took it that way. with an 8 week old puppy, as i have had lots in the past and grow up just fine, you can mold and shape them into the puppy you want. it will take alot of work but its possible. and its ALOT easier than starting with an almost already adult which has been raised the wrong way for MY home. --and about the site i didnt think advertising for someone would be a bad thing but im sorry if that was not ok with you and i took it off the site now.
Tanza: the breeder is talking with her family and if they will take her back then fine. I will. and I know how to raise dogs, im not trying to be rude but it insults me that you are like…idk however you put that part about the puppy growing up was very rude to me. Maybe you didnt mean it, maybe you did but i took it that way. with an 8 week old puppy, as i have had lots in the past and grow up just fine, you can mold and shape them into the puppy you want. it will take alot of work but its possible. and its ALOT easier than starting with an almost already adult which has been raised the wrong way for MY home.
I disagree, while you can shape any dog to a degree, if you have unstable temperaments to start with, regardless of what you do, most times you will have problems especially with in-tact same sex…. Many here can attest to that... and even with Basenjis that come from good temperaments, often in-tact same sexes do not work... or as we say, they work till they don't....
ok well i guess we will agree to disagree. im not going to fight with anyone. Its my opinion and in my experience getting a puppy and raising it as you want it will be how it ends up. my female has gotten along with all females, occasionally there is a little disagreement but it ends and they are fine. I have my beliefs and you have yours. ill leave it at that.
Without taking sides, in that I am "for" or "against" anyone, I can understand where Marli's mom is coming from. She brought this dog into her life in the early summer, and its not working out. The breeder has said, "whatever", in that she won't refund her, but she'd take her back (and sell her again). If you know the dog isn't your forever dog, why spend $300 to get her spayed… when the next person may/may not want her intact, or is willing to spend that money?
We aren't all professional breeders, but we ARE all basenji LOVERS~ yes? Rather than list her dog on Craig's List, Miss P has chosen to ask for help to place this dog here. Will Cesar M's rules be followed by any basenji? ha ha. However, at the end of the day, Miss P wants her Marli to find a happy home, without the help of ebay or CL or oodle.com.
Rather than spend time digging our heels in, I bet that the basenji organization in the thriving metropolitan of... SOUTH DAKOTA... is of little use to Miss P. If the power of the internet can help Marli find a forever home, so be it.
Just my 2 cents.
I do not know if you have had her thyroid tested-a complete thyroid test done, but I would. I have had young Bs that have needed thryoid supplementation.
Jennifer
Without taking sides, in that I am "for" or "against" anyone, I can understand where Marli's mom is coming from. She brought this dog into her life in the early summer, and its not working out. The breeder has said, "whatever", in that she won't refund her, but she'd take her back (and sell her again). If you know the dog isn't your forever dog, why spend $300 to get her spayed… when the next person may/may not want her intact, or is willing to spend that money?
We aren't all professional breeders, but we ARE all basenji LOVERS~ yes? Rather than list her dog on Craig's List, Miss P has chosen to ask for help to place this dog here. Will Cesar M's rules be followed by any basenji? ha ha. However, at the end of the day, Miss P wants her Marli to find a happy home, without the help of ebay or CL or oodle.com.
Rather than spend time digging our heels in, I bet that the basenji organization in the thriving metropolitan of... SOUTH DAKOTA... is of little use to Miss P. If the power of the internet can help Marli find a forever home, so be it.
Just my 2 cents.
I disagree, I don't think any of us here are "professional" breeders… we are hobby breeders, breeding to better the breed, not just pump out puppies.
And she has not "asked" to help place, she is selling the bitch, not just finding a home. And you ask if she should spend the money to spay? IMO, yes... if all she is looking for is that forever home. At the end of the day, while maybe she wants that good home, she always wants money to cover what she put into the bitch and is willing to place her in a breeding situation... regardless if she (the bitch) is of good conformation and/or health tested.
At the end of the day, while maybe she wants that good home, she always wants money to cover what she put into the bitch and is willing to place her in a breeding situation… regardless if she (the bitch) is of good conformation and/or health tested.
And don't forget temperament. The reason this bitch is being placed is for temperament issues and yet she is willing to place it into a breeding situation where it will produce more puppies with temperament issues.
If the breeder will not take it back and she will not pay for spay then she should contact BRAT and see if she is good candidate for rescue because they will make sure she is spayed, they screen their homes thoroughly and have a large network of support for the dog and the new owners.
If I'm reading her posts right, Miss P. is 19 years young. She is NOT a Back Yard Breeder, nor a Puppy Mill, nor even a "Hobbyist" breeder, whatever that means.
Simply, she had a basenji she's loved for the last 10 years and thought that she could breed dogs. Call it being naive, call it following her dream, whatever. She saved her money and bought her puppy, later named Marli, so she could possibly show her, and then breed her with another stud champion.
Miss P. didn't come to this forum to get bashed around. Things aren't going as she imagined, so she's trying to find another home for her 8 month old, and to recoup some of her costs…. she's 19 years old, after all. Can we keep that in mind when we decide to cast judgement?
Go back and read some of her earlier post when she decided to get this bitch…. there was more then a little conversation that this was not a good idea and why... and also the question was raised if this bitch was from a responsible breeder...
And Hobby breeders are ones that breed to improve the breed, not to make money, if fact rarely even cover the cost of breeding a litter...
The price she is trying to get is really not realistic, regardless of what she paid or has put into the bitch.
And even at 19, lessons are sometimes really hard... you swallow your pride, do what is best... and learn by your mistakes... at any age... so the fact that she way overpaid for this girl to begin with is and has to be considered a lesson learned.
However, note in this case that she is still planning to get yet another bitch and breed....
Patty, you are a sweet, tolerant, nice person. I can see this from your postings. But age really shouldn't serve as a shield when we're talking about the serious business of selling or breeding other living creatures. 19 years of age is not too young to learn to take responsibility for your own actions. That's what I tell the freshmen I catch plagiarizing or cheating in my college-level courses – I've heard "she's 19 years old, after all" from well-intentioned parents, but I file the academic dishonesty paperwork anyway. Now plagiarism is hardly comparable to the process of establishing a kennel... but I'm jumping in because that statement just struck a chord with me.
Back to the subject... By all accounts, Miss P. wants to do things expertly; the tone of her Praireland Basenjis website (which I think you've read carefully) conveys just that. But what I'm seeing pointed out on this public forum -- in brusque terms, perhaps, but honest ones -- is that something's amiss. $1000 - $1500 is a lot to pay for a "pedigreed" Basenji of questionable temperament, no matter how much was put into her. It was too much to pay to begin with, and the financial loss should be taken as part of the "lesson" that it really ISN'T that easy to acquire/show/breed dogs. Puppies are not blank slates, even at the age of 8 weeks. Since the seller in question is rehoming her dog because of a situational issue that she has admittedly been vague about (i.e. dog nipping son, seller not having time to work with 9 month old puppy), I think there is legitimate reason to question how she has the time to raise the 8 week old puppy that she is requesting as a trade.
There's questioning, and there's judgment. I think the former is called for here, and there has been a lot of that, but I haven't seen any 'bashing' or insults, just what some might call "brutal honesty."
Curlytails… thank you for your post, very well put... and very honest and very much to the point... much better then I did....... and I would only like to add regarding price of pups... there are many of us here on the Forum that place our pups for around 1000.00.. but they are fully health tested, of good temperament and on a contract that not only covers if you have to "give" up your pups for any reason (doesn't address a refund however, but addresses the fact that you can not just "sell" your Basenji, period)... and if they must be spay/neutered.... As many of you know if you live in California, our Vet prices are way more then many other places in the US... so the cost to raising a litter over and above things like health testing is pretty high... and we all know that anything and everything can go wrong in whelping a litter....
If I'm reading her posts right, Miss P. is 19 years young. She is NOT a Back Yard Breeder, nor a Puppy Mill, nor even a "Hobbyist" breeder, whatever that means.
Simply, she had a basenji she's loved for the last 10 years and thought that she could breed dogs. Call it being naive, call it following her dream, whatever. She saved her money and bought her puppy, later named Marli, so she could possibly show her, and then breed her with another stud champion.Miss P. didn't come to this forum to get bashed around. Things aren't going as she imagined, so she's trying to find another home for her 8 month old, and to recoup some of her costs…. she's 19 years old, after all. Can we keep that in mind when we decide to cast judgement?
That is honeslty exactly my situation. and i appreciate you being kind about it. I have a 10 month old son, and i need all the money i can get. I DO want her to have a good home and i DO NOT have the money to get her spayed just to sell her. i dont want to put any more money into her than i have already because i dont have a job nor do i have the money to do so. I did come on this forum to get help and maybe get some money back. I DO want a puppy so that it can be part of my family and yes if i do breed i will be doing all the health testing –as i planned to do with marli before i decided to sell her for the incidents that have happend-- so im sorry if people dont agree with that.
And thank you PAtty M, that was also nice of you. I know you werent taking sides but i appreciate the input to share your side of the situation. and lot of people dont even know what a basenji is in south dakota, so your right the basenji community is definately "trhiving" here 
funny that you mention it, i do try Cesars methods on my dogs, along with the dogs that I train and it works wonders...
marli is a little more difficult but i dont have the time right NOW to work with her to fix it when i can start fresh--even if that sounds extremely horible as i can see some people may say--with an 8 week old puppy.
Several years ago when Whitney [this is Miss P's first name] came to me for advice… I gave her TONS of it... loads of education on Basenjis, breeding, etc. She had a girl and she was interested in my boys and/or a puppy.
I also was not willing to sell her a Basenji... due to the fact that she continually told me she wanted to breed and didn't need the show quality pups, she would take something for lesser money.
I had no interest in one of my Basenjis be put into this kind of situation. Several years have gone by... nothing has changed. Except that she now is an older kid with a kid. And having a puppy is apparently not the best of situations for her family at this time.
Go to Companion Pets, get the puppy spayed. THEN find her a good home.
A r/w spayed bitch would be easily placed... and at her age, there should be no reason you couldn't place her for $500. That would sound to be the best thing she could do at this time.
Miss P., you said yourself that you are a "very poor" person and money as well as time is an issue for you right now with your child, but according to your website, you have another puppy coming in the middle or end of October. As in, one month from now? From a breeder that's not even registered with the BCOA, despite the loads of literature and recommendations on your own website? I don't understand how you still think that's a good idea, given what you've shared about your priorities here.
And if that sounds "insulting" or judgmental because I am confused by your decision, so be it.
Apologies to the original poster who was just looking around for a young pup – hope he/she's not being spammed to death with e-mail notifications.
I have found her a nice home. Thanks everyone for all the input.
and im sorry if this sounds rude and mean but this is going to be my opinion. A few of you who breed basenjis seems like you are all that counts, that you guys think everyone else is a piece of crap because they want to start breeding. YOU started breeding at one time. Some people have to do it differently but truely want to do it for the good of the breed and want to start showing and do TRULY love the breed. Maybe we need a little help in that start. not alot of criticism of how horrible we are and how stupid and that its a bad idea…but its ALWAYS a bad idea when its not YOU breeding them because you think you know so much about them. Maybe you do. but you can use that to help instead of critizise. If someone is going to do it they are going to do it help or not. Wouldnt it be better to do it with help and guidance and done correctly than to have to go to a BYB or hobby breeder to get a puppy?
I DO want a puppy with show potential and I have been looking. First of all yes marli didnt get along well with my home and my situation and yes that is why i found her a home, also because i realized she wasnt going to do well in a show after seeing her attitude and temperament. What makes me so mad in this whole situation is because people act like im so bad and like they KNOW me. NO ONE KNOWS ME ON HERE...and that makes me so mad that people judge me without knowing me. Sure I am trying to get a breedable basenjis but i am up front about it because i want the breeder to know that i DO want to IN TIME and I want a breeder to help me do it right and be behind me in helping me have the right experience. Just because you have been in the business for a long time and you are "popular" doesnt mean you are big **** and invincible to the people who are just starting off.
Im sorry if i sound snobby and ignorant but honestly i am hurt by what people are saying and the topper was Khani. You are NOT so perfect and i may be attacked for saying that but its the truth. and you do NOT know me. And I didnt go for something "for less money" as obviously 1200 dollars isnt cheap (whether she is a good show dog or not) I have talked with the breeder and i admit i made a mistake paying that much for a dog that wouldnt make the cut in the ring (so i found her a home for that reason and the others) I am only human. ill make mistakes as I know each and everyone of you have.
I HONESTLY just wanted some help and to get to know more basenji people, and not to be ganged up on just because everyone thinks they know so much more than me. Yes you might know alot but you dont know me and i take an extreme amount of offense when people start judging me when they have no idea what my situation is or who i am as a person....
