Tillo fighting during agility training

[Janneke]

Sigh.. We have a new dog in our training group… an intact Shar pei male which was placed in our group because he wasn't nice to some of the other dogs in his previous group... His owner is a very nice woman, but she just doesn't know what kind of dog she has and how to handle it...

This wednesday was his third training in our group.. he had been watching Tillo since lesson one and also visited us a couple of times with not so friendly intentions during the times he walked off leash.. I made sure he couldn't touch Tillo by standing in between and letting him know it was better to go back to his owner.. I wish I would have said something about not liking it to be in the same group with this kind of dog.. because I just knew one of the dogs was going to get hurt.. but I didn't want to be 'that person'.. And Tillo was really good when he was off leash, he never really looked at the Shar pei or anything like that.. (I'm not saying Tillo is an angel.. I know he isn't..)

Well.. Of course.. It went wrong this wednesday. The Shar pei did the course first. Tillo was next. I looked back to make sure the Shar pei was leashed before I took Tillo's leash off.. but I didn't look close enough.. Tillo ran away towards the Shar pei (he had his 'I want to run around before I listen' day) and the Shar pei owner let him go (I think she was only holding his collar).. My G... They fought pretty seriously, with the Shar pei being bigger and stronger, so Tillo lay on his back.. Until he screamed like hell.. He ran away and just sat there on the otherside of the field... still screaming.. I think it took a minute (it feld like 30 min) before he was silent again.. After checking him I first thought nothing was wrong, but he cried really loud if I touched his leg.. so.. there had to be something.. He was bitten pretty seriously in his shoulder/front.. It looked like small holes, but they were pretty deep. I'm glad he still walked normally, so we cleaned his wounds and tried to get him on the training field again.. No way.. Tillo was scared.. He was looking for the Shar pei and everytime he saw him he would quickly hide behind my legs. After 10 minutes he was more relaxed and we did a small course. I stayed a bit longer after our training and we just watched the other groups train while standing on the field. I think that helped him, because he definitely was more relaxed afterwards.

I told the trainer I don't want to have Tillo in the same group as the Shar pei again.. I hope he can work something out.. If not, we'll quite. I hope we can find another nice training then.. I had Tillo's first two agility matches planned for July and August.. But now I don't know.. Another big sigh.. The first thing I thought was: my next dog won't be a Basenji.. those annoying dogs.. :mad: Now I just hope Tillo will still enjoy agility..

And another sigh...

[mauigirl]

Gosh Janneke I'm soooo sorry to hear this. I have similar problems with Riley, although honestly when things go bad he's the attacker and not the attackee, so he's more like the Sharpei in that sense. It's nearly impossible to anticipate when he and another male dog won't agree, although sometimes it is breed specific. And it's very day and night. He can have a very positive dog park experience one day and the next we have to leave after 10 minutes because there's a dog there that Riley will not get along with. I'm getting very good at recognizing the signs and getting out of there before anything serious happens.
It tears me up to have the positive running, playing, barooing fun negated by a dog fight. And I wonder how he came to be this way.

Best of luck to you on getting into a class without the Sharpei. I hope Tillo heals up quickly.

[thunderbird8588]

Sorry to hear about Tillo. Janneke and hope he is alright now, poor boy.

[Janneke]

@mauigirl:

Gosh Janneke I'm soooo sorry to hear this. I have similar problems with Riley. It's nearly impossible to anticipate when he and another male dog won't agree, although sometimes it is breed specific. And it's very day and night. He can have a very positive dog park experience one day and the next we have to leave after 10 minutes because there's a dog there that Riley will not get along with. It tears me up to have the positive running, playing, barooing fun negated by a dog fight. And I wonder how he came to be this way.

Best of luck to you on getting into a class without the Sharpei. I hope Tillo heals up quickly.

Tillo can be really annoying on leash, especially close to a coursing field or on the agility field, cause he's so excited. Off leash he still thinks he's the absolute alpha dog, but he won't fight. This Shar pei just wasn't going to tolerate Tillo close to him. I actually yelled at the owner of the Shar pei to shout at Tillo or throw something towards him to get him to go away from the Shar pei.. but it was too late.

For me it's pretty clear which dogs are tolerated and which aren't.. Females are ok, most of the neutered males are ok and intact males are not ok. Especially not the dominant breeds.. I knew from the first second I saw the Shar pei, they wouldn't like eachother.. I was just stupid that I tried it.

[nobarkus]

I'm sorry to hear about Tillo. Hope he heals quickly. There's a Shar Pei named Mr. Wrinkles that goes to the dog park that I used to take Buddy to that's intact. He would sometimes play with Buddy and then try to hump him, luckily Buddy is pretty tolerant and the owner would quickly pull him off. Buddy can be annoying on leash too when he gets really excited. Buddy has no alpha issues though.

[mauigirl]

Would you say boxers are a dominant breed? These are things I don't know too much about, but ought too. More often than not Riley doesn't get along with boxers. One time a female boxer flopped on the ground and showed Riley her belly at the park. He went "Ok" and walked away, and he was fine after that. I wish they all would do that!

[curlytails]

I don't know really about "dominant/non-dominant" breeds… but my shiba's definitely reactive to leggy, high-energy breeds that pant when excited. Boxers DEFINITELY fit into that category. He also reacts badly to huskies, and any unneutered males that are his size or larger (luckily we don't see many intact males at the places we frequent). So I feel for you in this situation, Janneke. There are some things that just set off our dogs and it's hard to control the situation when there are so many hormones in the air and the situation calls for so many dog owners to be in the same proximity. I hope this does not traumatize Tillo too much.

[agilebasenji]

Janneke- I'm so sorry to read about this. It is very unfortunate and may cause a set back in Tillo's agility career, but it does not have to end it. Have you read Control Unleashed? The author's dog had been attacked, but she was able to build his self-confidence. I'm not sure why if the sharpei had issues with other dogs in one class they just moved him to your class. Hopefully he won't be an issue in your future classes. What did you instructor say?

[Patty]

I do hope that Tillo's injuries soon heal and that he hasn't been so traumatised that he won't be able to compete any more.

[imbj]

Oh no! So sorry that Tillo had this experience. Hopefully, he'll forget about it - with time, and that his wounds heal soon.

[nobarkus]

I know here that there are rules against and fines for loose dogs at lure events other than the dogs that are running. I don't know the exact rules at agility.

[MacPack]

I hope Tillo's bite wounds heal well. Shar peis seem to be aggressive as a generalization. Maybe if (assuming that dog is not in the class again) you just go back like nothing happened, he will take his cues from you!

[NerdyDogOwner]

Oh god, that sounds awful! And that Tillo was screaming for so long! Poor guy, must of been some serious pain! How are his wounds? Are you going to have a vet have a look?

If anything, that new dog should be removed. It's a shame that you would have to leave the agility club.

I would stay, and if that dog gets into another fight, I would gather some members to all join in and complain. Hopefully getting him removed.

My thoughts go out to you both!

[Buana]

I hope Tillo will heal quickly…

It must be very scary to see it Hope the Shar-pei and Tillo don't meet again...

[Janneke]

@agilebasenji:

Janneke- I'm so sorry to read about this. It is very unfortunate and may cause a set back in Tillo's agility career, but it does not have to end it. Have you read Control Unleashed? The author's dog had been attacked, but she was able to build his self-confidence. I'm not sure why if the sharpei had issues with other dogs in one class they just moved him to your class. Hopefully he won't be an issue in your future classes. What did you instructor say?

I also don't know why the Shar pei was placed in our group.. He had/has problems with 'black dogs'.. Well Tillo is far from being black.. :rolleyes:

The instructor who decided that the Shar pei could join our group was pretty pissed at himself for making that decision. He really likes Tillo, so I do think he will try to work something out for Tillo and me. On monday we have an extra training to practice the weave poles. It's only for dogs who (want to) compete in agility.. so no Shar pei there This monday we'll make some jumps as well, to give Tillo his positive feeling back

This morning we had obedience and Tillo did perfect. No problems with the other dogs, so that's great We also met another Shar pei on our walk from the training and Tillo watched it for quite some time when it passed, but he didn't make trouble. He hasn't got a "Shar pei trauma"

@MacPack:

I hope Tillo's bite wounds heal well. Shar peis seem to be aggressive as a generalization. Maybe if (assuming that dog is not in the class again) you just go back like nothing happened, he will take his cues from you!

Yes, Shar peis aren't the easiest dogs. Wednesday when we went back on the field I just kept talking in a happy voice and walking like nothing had happened. Tillo looked at me like: "are you crazy, stop that weird happy voice, I've just been bitten!".. haha.. but after about 10 minutes he was definitely feeling better. We've had many great moments on that field, so I hope he will remember them instead of this one bad moment.

@NerdyDogOwner:

Oh god, that sounds awful! And that Tillo was screaming for so long! Poor guy, must of been some serious pain! How are his wounds? Are you going to have a vet have a look?

If anything, that new dog should be removed. It's a shame that you would have to leave the agility club.

I would stay, and if that dog gets into another fight, I would gather some members to all join in and complain. Hopefully getting him removed.

My thoughts go out to you both!

The screaming was awful! I thought he at least lost a leg or something like that.. People from another training field came asking what was happening :S We cleaned the wounds and they look 'nice'. The teeth went deeper than I could see, but it doesn't look infected and Tillo isn't paying any attention to them anymore.

If the Shar pei isn't moved to another group, I won't risk another fight. If the Shar pei would listen to his owner, I wouldn't mind him in our group. As long as she can call him back, that's fine by me. Problem is: this dog just does whatever he wants. Tillo has enough bite wounds for now..

[agilebasenji]

@Janneke:

Yes, Shar peis aren't the easiest dogs. Wednesday when we went back on the field I just kept talking in a happy voice and walking like nothing had happened. Tillo looked at me like: "are you crazy, stop that weird happy voice, I've just been bitten!".. haha.. but after about 10 minutes he was definitely feeling better. We've had many great moments on that field, so I hope he will remember them instead of this one bad moment.

Oh this is very good news. The fact that you have had many postivie experiences there means he will probably recover quicky (mentally/emotionally). If you think about it like a bank account. You have put lots of money in there (positive experiences) and just made a huge withdrawal (the sharpei incident). Hopefully there is enough in your account to cover that withdrawal.

I wish you all the best! I think you're doing a fabulous job with him (in general and with the sharpei incident).

[Kipawa]

I am soooo sorry that Tillo had to experience that. It sounds like the other people don't want the Shar-pei in their group. I think that should tell the trainer LOADS. Rather than upsetting a whole group of people, perhaps the trainer should tell the owner of the Shar-pei that they need to do more work with their dog before attending another class. The outcome could have been much worse. Sending warm hugs to you and Tillo.

[Quercus]

@agilebasenji:

Oh this is very good news. The fact that you have had many postivie experiences there means he will probably recover quicky (mentally/emotionally). If you think about it like a bank account. You have put lots of money in there (positive experiences) and just made a huge withdrawal (the sharpei incident). Hopefully there is enough in your account to cover that withdrawal.

I wish you all the best! I think you're doing a fabulous job with him (in general and with the sharpei incident).

I completly agree…Janneke, you are doing fabulously!

[Janneke]

Thank you Agilebasenji and Quercus, I'm just doing what my 'mother instinct' tells me to do Tillo is such an awesome dog.. And he recovers quickly if something startles him. I'm sure we'll work it out. I was quite shocked wednesday and I was still on thursday and yesterday.. but today was perfect. Tillo did good at the training and we walked him off leash twice for 2+ hour in total and he did perfect with the other dogs we met, playing nicely. One growl at a dog because it humbed Tillo on the head (:rolleyes:) but who can blame him for that

I'm feeling better already, thanks for all the nice comments people! I think it worked
Who knows, maybe we can still compete on July 10th..

[Elysium]

I hope you can! What a bad experience…

By the way:
One of Thabos brothers had a fight with a not-so-nice dog.
Such wounds are sometimes more serious as expected...
But as Tillo looks happy and healthy by now, it seems to be alright Glad to hear that!