Good luck with your list Khalani, Wonder if I should get Kaiser to write one up.
Jolanda and Kaiser
He's Arriving On Saturday!
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You might think so, however… if they provide what is in their contract, little as it might be and full fill their part of the agreement... then if you bad mouth them... they can turn around and sue you for slander or Defamation of Character
Defamation only comes into play if what is said is claimed to be untrue. If someone bought a dog from a breeder, the breeder claimed the dog was not an affected dog and it turned out to be the opposite, the person who bought the dog could legally state that they were lied to (assuming they have proof to show that was the case). It's not defamation if it's true, regardless of contracts.
Actually, if you want to go the extra mile you can wire the funds instead of paying by cash or check. In the event that you are defrauded, the individual accepting the wire (presumably the one who committed the said fraud) automatically gets shifted into federal criminal charges since it was done by wire (wire fraud gets a lot more attention from federal authorities). It's actually what I did since I hate writing out checks. Granted I wasn't defrauded, I knew if I was lied to I would have a much firmer leg to stand on.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1343.html
Just a thought, anyone who knows/understands the law and is intentionally lying will avoid any wire transaction.
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Tayda, trust me I have taken all this to heart.
But everyone keeps saying not to buy from BYB, yet I have yet to see someone mention an organization that people can go to, to report these BYB that breed B's with Fanconi, does one exist? And if not, why not?!
I mean, there's ripoffreport.com I guess…any others?
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I've found a relative of Kai's… on this forum!
bellabasenji also has a B from the breeder we are getting Kai from:D
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Then you should also read this thread about the health issues that they have in their lines including Bella's slipping Patellas.
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?p=73697#post73697
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Defamation only comes into play if what is said is claimed to be untrue. If someone bought a dog from a breeder, the breeder claimed the dog was not an affected dog and it turned out to be the opposite, the person who bought the dog could legally state that they were lied to (assuming they have proof to show that was the case). It's not defamation if it's true, regardless of contracts.
Actually, if you want to go the extra mile you can wire the funds instead of paying by cash or check. In the event that you are defrauded, the individual accepting the wire (presumably the one who committed the said fraud) automatically gets shifted into federal criminal charges since it was done by wire (wire fraud gets a lot more attention from federal authorities). It's actually what I did since I hate writing out checks. Granted I wasn't defrauded, I knew if I was lied to I would have a much firmer leg to stand on.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1343.html
Just a thought, anyone who knows/understands the law and is intentionally lying will avoid any wire transaction.
If the breeder covers themselves in the contact, you would have a very hard time in court… I guess that was my only point along with, why would you even want to deal with someone that you are already thinking about what if I want to sue them....
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That is the only health issue listed.
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Along with Bella's tummy troubles… And the fact that the dog they use as a sire was sold at an auction and note what the person says about this breeder... and even worse that they sell to pet stores....
And visit this thread also
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=605 -
That is the only health issue listed.
Not true, she (Bella) has tummy troubles if you go back to all the threads started by her…
And fixing patellas can (especially in Califoria) cost 2 to 3,000.00 for the surgery.
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I cant seem to find the posts about the Tummy troubles, I'll have a more detailed look in the morning.
And I will be mentioning the patella issue to the Vet on Monday.
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http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=4739
It is obvious that you made your decision to support this BYB and in my opinion 1/2 a step from a Puppy Miller since they sell to pets stores… so I wish you the best
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I have just finished reading these posts and want to say I hope things work out for you. I wish I had understood more when I first posted here. They tried to warn me about my zoe but I didnt understand how it all worked and was sure they were talking about another dog. There are so many zoe/zoeys. I asked the breeder about fanconi but didnt know how to look up the testing. This forum even led me to the sight but it was confusing and I didnt find anything so figured again it couldnt be her. So we went to pick up our puppy met the breeder and she looked me in the eye and talked with us for a couple of hours getting to know my family, my 9 yr old daughter then handed over this puppy. She is beautiful, loving and so full of Basenji mischief and she brings joy to our lives daily. Everyday I love her more. My Zoe was tested before I got her and she is positive infected fanconi. So with all the good I have to worry about when this will happen. She is only just over 1 yr and I would never think of putting her down I also dont fully know what I'm in for. I just know I will do the best I can and that I dont wish this mar on anyones happiness with their new baby.
I thank Tanza and Ivoss for trying to warm me. Having got Zoe and fallen so under her spell I cant imagine having another dog but maybe if I had known before who knows. I just wanted you to know my story.
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Forever Amber.. Thank you for posting your story here…. and sharing with the group what happened with you.... and that is the problem with any health concern... you just never know.... the more you can reduce the odds, the more that you will have all the time to share with your family companion. While no one, not ever responsible breeders can say without a doubt that their puppies will never have problems... cause we can't... however.. we can do the best we can before breeding to reduce the odds. Especially with something like Fanconi and other health concerns that can be seen in different pedigrees. But if breeders are not testing, no one knows.. and in the end it is the pup that suffers the result. But at least with a responsible breeder, they are in it for the long haul... and if your pup develops problems, responsible breeders are there to support you.. not just grab the money and run....
It is beyond criminal what happened to Forever Amber... as that breeder did test and did know, but decided not to tell the prospective buyer... that is way beyond horrible, IMO.... they reduced the price and got them to "buy" into getting that pup..
Forever Amber, glad that you are here... and fingers crossed for the future that Zoe stays healthly for a very long time.... by the way, how is her tail problem? -
Her tail is all curled and she is back to normal but she is going to the vet anyway on friday. I printed out the information on fanconi for the vet that was so conveniently on this thread just to be sure he understands. I have been going to this vet since I came to PA 16 yrs ago so I'm sure he will help me out as much as possible. I'm still hoping I will be lucky with zoe but it will always be my biggest worry for all of her life.
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I don't think she said what litter was Kai was from… but these are the dogs the Timmons' have:
Zerah's Little Tex [r/w M, HP089149/01 USA, 3 Feb 2004]
x
Nanny Owens [r/w F, HP127830/05 USA, 20 Nov 2004]and the second litter was:
WL's Alex
x
Kk Sara Named Me Alix [r/w F, HP057520/01 USA, 10 Jul 2003]The second breeding has produced dogs that are with Keota in OK. Horrible health issues with these dogs.
A couple on the board bought a puppy from them and it lived for only a month. It was sicker than a dog when they got it and that was a hard lesson learned. They were offered another pup, but no money back.
They ended up getting one of my adults.Best of luck with your pup.
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@Forever:
Her tail is all curled and she is back to normal but she is going to the vet anyway on friday. I printed out the information on fanconi for the vet that was so conveniently on this thread just to be sure he understands. I have been going to this vet since I came to PA 16 yrs ago so I'm sure he will help me out as much as possible. I'm still hoping I will be lucky with zoe but it will always be my biggest worry for all of her life.
Good for you ….. and fingers crossed that Zoe stays healthly for a very long time...
Remember... you want to start test strips when she is two... and since the strips are only good for 6 months, use them 3/4 days in a row... as early onset of Fanconi can produce mixed results over a couple of days... Early onset you might find OK one day.. spilling the next....
And you might want to discuss with your Vet were to have blood gases done, as that is the next step if you find sugar in the urine. That way you are prepared... -
I don't think she said what litter was Kai was from… but these are the dogs the Timmons' have:
Zerah's Little Tex [r/w M, HP089149/01 USA, 3 Feb 2004]
x
Nanny Owens [r/w F, HP127830/05 USA, 20 Nov 2004]and the second litter was:
WL's Alex
x
Kk Sara Named Me Alix [r/w F, HP057520/01 USA, 10 Jul 2003]The second breeding has produced dogs that are with Keota in OK. Horrible health issues with these dogs.
A couple on the board bought a puppy from them and it lived for only a month. It was sicker than a dog when they got it and that was a hard lesson learned. They were offered another pup, but no money back.
They ended up getting one of my adults.Best of luck with your pup.
I don't think they know what litter this pup is from… but I echo your thoughts Kathy.... best of luck with your pup.
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Remember… you want to start test strips when she is two... and since the strips are only good for 6 months, use them 3/4 days in a row... as early onset of Fanconi can produce mixed results over a couple of days... Early onset you might find OK one day.. spilling the next....
And you might want to discuss with your Vet were to have blood gases done, as that is the next step if you find sugar in the urine. That way you are prepared...Actually, for several months you could get off and on results on a basenji spilling sugar. Since the strips come in a bottle of 100…. they will go bad before you use them up... so I tell people to strip-test bi-monthly... use days that you remember, like paydays or 1st/15th. Better to catch it early than let them go too long in betweein tests!
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The more I think about it and read this thread, the more thankful I am to those who "criticized" me for trying to make a really bad decision: Lisa, Pat, Kathy, a few others… I hope that SpoiledKai will make the same decision as me: to not get the puppy, although now it does not seem like it. Yes, it's SUPER hard, when you have planned your life to inculde another furball, spent money to prepare for its arrival and already fallen in love with it. This is the second time I had to give up the B puppy (although for completely different reasons)... it only got harder this time. Still, not anywhere near as hard as losing the dog to uncurable condition, which I have also had in the past (Lisa reminded me about how painful it is). SpoiledKai, my heart goes out to you just having to think about that... Still I do not regret making that decision. I might have to wait another year for a new pup, but this time it's going to be great, I know that. Third time's the charm, right?
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I'm just so glad that I did my homework and have a sleeping basenjipup who only is faconi carrier. I feel so sorry for those of you who have faconi affected dogs.
I've had sick dogs, and the last on I lost to syringomyelia only got to be a year old. Its just heartbeaking to have to put a young (any dog - really) dog to sleep. I hope I never have to do that again. -
There's nothing wrong with trying to educate someone on the health concerns, but I'll be honest, sometimes it comes across to appear very cold instead of helpful. This is why we see people distance themselves because they feel intimidated. Hence my point that everyone is human and you need to understand that fact before asking "why on earth would anyone do that?".
My suggestion is that maybe some of you need to look at how you direct your responses and perhaps try a different approach. I think it's great that the knowledgeable individuals on here take the time to educate us on the important health concerns and the guidelines for finding a responsible breeder. I really do, but unfortunately it comes across very cold and harsh at times and that does not help the situation as a lot of people will distance themselves from that type of behavior.
The idea is to be helpful and understanding, not judgmental. We could all benefit by learning more about this breed and I think sometimes that passion can cause us to get a bit emotional about the topic. No one wants to be lied to, no one wants to take in a Basenji that is Fanconi positive expecting a healthy dog, etc.
I'll make one other point, the reason why some of these irresponsible breeders stay in business is because they are very warm when it comes to interaction with the customer. This attracts business, it's very straight forward.
