@Shaye's:
With a male, it may well be breeding season, or, maybe he's just getting old enough to figure a way to tell you he would prefer to be outside playing than being in the house.
Hahaha if it was for Nilo, he would be living on the street!
Training Advice, Please help
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Peace. I'm out.
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Peace. I'm out.
Which is fine.. but the point was that this person was and did admit to hitting his dogs… in a training method... and many of us were just trying to point out that this was not a good way of dealing with these types of problems...
Basenji "eat" clothes... underwear... for sure... and regardless of the age... you all might think that once they age this behavior stops.. I can tell you it doesn't and you need to remember that clothes left laying around will be the next thing eaten.... and regardless of the amout of training you try.... this is one of the things that instead of thinking "I can train them not to eat clothes" that "I need to remember to pick up after myself" is the better course of action....
No different then having children and leaving things around for them to "get into" like booze... pills... etc.... if you put them away.. the temptatation is not there.
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Your comments certainly make me wonder where your priorities are. Do you care about what happened to the animals? Were you disturbed or outraged at the situation? If so then where is your post in regard to that?
Usually this is what happens when there is lots of drama created. From my experience Drama is usually created by people who thrive on the attention from others. When Drama like what happened here occurs, it causes people like me who care about animals to start getting curious as to what is really going on. Then people like me start looking further into the situation in an attempt to find the truth.
In my opinion, saying that these two posts want to make you leave the site is your attempt to create more drama. Apparently you are not disturbed by what happened, and only care whether or not the posts were antagonistic. This makes me wonder what value you put on the care of your dog or any other animals life. Or maybe if it just not about you or your dog, it just does not matter!
I think if I was out of line, I would have been called on it by the moderator and by a host of others who post. Since that did not happen,then maybe that is a good indication of whether the posts were antagonistic or not!
Jason
Hey Jason, just because people didn't write in response to your post disagreeing with what you wrote DOESN'T MEAN THEY AGREE WITH YOU and your approach. You are very argumentative and I am guessing many didn't want to get into it with you. I know that is the reason I didn't write anything.
Personally, I agree 100% with Robin n Jack. And now that I am writing in response, here's what I was thinking when I read your post…WHO THE HECK ARE YOU to call a vet hospital to find out about their services to rat someone out to a bunch of people that you don't know, that this guy doesn't know. You aren't the authority on basenjis, vet care, or anything that I can see...but I do think you are a bully. You're in the learning phase about these dogs...just like many of us...but you seem to have forgotten that.
Yes I find the whole situation of Porthos' bitch getting pregnant and the resulting birth disturbing. But, just because the person doesn't respond back to argumentative posts about how they took care of their pet, doesn't mean he didn't take her to the vet. You don't know that any more than the rest of us do.
And just because someone doesn't agree WITH YOUR APPROACH, does not mean they don't care about the health and welfare of the pet or their own pet.
Funny about the drama bit...so someone calls you out and says that this thread really makes them want to leave the forum...and you say they are creating drama. AND YOU'RE NOT CREATING DRAMA? AT ALL?
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Geez-
Reading both this thread and the other thread on this topic makes me honestly want to leave this site entirely.
I know tempers run hot, and everyone is very impassioned, but could you take a deep breath and put yourself in his shoes? He has obviously had a hard time of it….I know the pup did, too, but honestly, is antagonizing him like that really going to do any good?
But, by all means, keep telling him what he should have done. I'm sure that is very useful at this stage of the game.
While you are at it, why don't you let us know when you make a mistake, do something wrong, make the wrong decision, and we can all throw stones at you?
I have to agree with you Robin 'n Jack. I find the site rather testy and far too many know-it-alls. I had hoped to find a forum that was informative and supportive, but I think I missed the boat.
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Hey Jason, just because people didn't write in response to your post disagreeing with what you wrote DOESN'T MEAN THEY AGREE WITH YOU and your approach. You are very argumentative and I am guessing many didn't want to get into it with you. I know that is the reason I didn't write anything.
Personally, I agree 100% with Robin n Jack. And now that I am writing in response, here's what I was thinking when I read your post…WHO THE HECK ARE YOU to call a vet hospital to find out about their services to rat someone out to a bunch of people that you don't know, that this guy doesn't know. You aren't the authority on basenjis, vet care, or anything that I can see...but I do think you are a bully. You're in the learning phase about these dogs...just like many of us...but you seem to have forgotten that.
Yes I find the whole situation of Porthos' bitch getting pregnant and the resulting birth disturbing. But, just because the person doesn't respond back to argumentative posts about how they took care of their pet, doesn't mean he didn't take her to the vet. You don't know that any more than the rest of us do.
And just because someone doesn't agree WITH YOUR APPROACH, does not mean they don't care about the health and welfare of the pet or their own pet.
Funny about the drama bit...so someone calls you out and says that this thread really makes them want to leave the forum...and you say they are creating drama. AND YOU'RE NOT CREATING DRAMA? AT ALL?
Very well said.
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Hey Jason, just because people didn't write in response to your post disagreeing with what you wrote DOESN'T MEAN THEY AGREE WITH YOU and your approach. You are very argumentative and I am guessing many didn't want to get into it with you. I know that is the reason I didn't write anything.
**I did not ask anyone to agree with me. I also did not ask anyone to agree with my approach. If stating the obvious about proper health care for the Basenji Mother and litter, as well as the concern over the animal abuse makes me a bully then I will own that badge with pride.
You can use me or any other excuse for not posting and being outraged by the lack of care for the Mother and the Two dead puppies if you need to. You can also use my approach or any other excuse for not being outraged by the other poster admitting in his post that he hit his dog (and has punched his dog in the nose). Yep, posting because it bothered me in both situations that animals were the ones that suffered makes me argumentative and a bully.**
Personally, I agree 100% with Robin n Jack. And now that I am writing in response, here's what I was thinking when I read your post…WHO THE HECK ARE YOU to call a vet hospital to find out about their services to rat someone out to a bunch of people that you don't know, that this guy doesn't know. You aren't the authority on basenjis, vet care, or anything that I can see...but I do think you are a bully. You're in the learning phase about these dogs...just like many of us...but you seem to have forgotten that.
[[B]COLOR="DarkRed"]You certainly have the right to agree with Robin n Jack. I have no issue with that. Now for your question about "WHO THE HECK ARE YOU" I am a normal person that cares about animals in general. I care about animals getting proper Heath Care when needed, I care about animals who are being Abused. I have the right to care just like anyone else. I also have the right to call and investigate anything anyone tells me to find out if they are telling the Truth or not. Apparently it bothers you that I found out the truth in regard to the Vet Care available on the base.
It appears to me you are more upset because I posted factual information in my post then the fact that the other poster was exposed. If this was a 3 year old child that had been raped or had its nose broken by a parent wouldn't you be outraged and take some action? Abuse is Abuse, Neglect is Neglect.
While I may be in the learning phase with Basenji's (which has nothing to do with anything), this is not my first dog or my first experience. I do not have to own a horse to notice if an owner is starving it, or if the owner or someone else is beating it. I guess it would also make me argumentative or a bully if I spoke up in that situation as well.
Yes I find the whole situation of Porthos' bitch getting pregnant and the resulting birth disturbing. But, just because the person doesn't respond back to argumentative posts about how they took care of their pet, doesn't mean he didn't take her to the vet. You don't know that any more than the rest of us do.
And just because someone doesn't agree WITH YOUR APPROACH, does not mean they don't care about the health and welfare of the pet or their own pet.
If really do find the situation disturbing then did you post to Porthos in regard to it? Did you see me ask you or anyone else to respond or agree to my post? When the Portho's situation came up on the chat board, what steps did you take? Yet here you are posting more about how I responded and the steps I took to investigate to find the truth instead of using your energy to help the animals in question.
Excuse me, yes I did know a little more than you because I investigated Portho's claim about what services were provided. I also am former military and I have lived on military bases. You and others learned that there actually was an X-ray machine in the Vet clinic, and services were available because of my call. You also learned because of that call that Portho's misled others in the forum intentionally.
Funny about the drama bit…so someone calls you out and says that this thread really makes them want to leave the forum...and you say they are creating drama. AND YOU'RE NOT CREATING DRAMA? AT ALL?
**Yeah its funny about drama. I made my posts and then left them alone. I spoke up in regard to Proper Health Care and Animal Abuse! The only responses to my post were complaints in regard to my approach in post and whats even more funny, your major complaint is your disagreement about exposing someone who has openly lied to the forum about the health, safety, and welfare of his animals.
I am just curious about how much abuse or neglect has to be exposed for that to bother you more than my delivery method?
I did not see Robin n Jack say they wanted to leave the forum because they felt sorry for the dead puppies, or the possible infection the mother might die from that could follow. I did not see Robin n Jack say they wanted to leave the forum because Portho's admitted to hitting his dog or punching it in the nose. Did you?
My post about Drama was not directed at anyone by name or in particular. Maybe there is a reason they took it personally. Maybe there is some truth in it.
No, I am not creating Drama, but I can assure you I am well aware of the time and effort I am wasting responding to it, and shame on me for doing that. If you or Robin n Jack or anyone else does not like my approach or my posts then you have an option. Use some self control and do not read them or respond to them. I think there is an ignore function in the forum as well.
Jason
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I have always believed that as responsible and compassionate human beings, it is our job to protect and defend those who cannot for themselves. This requires us to speak up when necessary, and urge others vehemently to do the right thing.
This is the very definition of an advocate.
Thanks Comic, for being an advocate for Basenjis!
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I have always believed that as responsible and compassionate human beings, it is our job to protect and defend those who cannot for themselves. This requires us to speak up when necessary, and urge others vehemently to do the right thing.
This is the very definition of an advocate.
Thanks Comic, for being an advocate for Basenjis!
+1
Jason,
I really don't have anything better to say than Eski has here. I do understand how others may perceive your posts as off putting, however I want to make it clear that IMO what you post comes from the heart and from your love of animals, and I thank you for that place in your heart that cares enough to speak up. The tone may be harsh, but there are situations where that is important. Please know that if I agree with your wording or not, I still respect and thank you for the intent behind it.
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+1 Jason,
I really don't have anything better to say than Eski has here. I do understand how others may perceive your posts as off putting, however I want to make it clear that IMO what you post comes from the heart and from your love of animals, and I thank you for that place in your heart that cares enough to speak up. The tone may be harsh, but there are situations where that is important. Please know that if I agree with your wording or not, I still respect and thank you for the intent behind it.
+2, Jason, Eski, and WWSD
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I think that for the most part this forum is a supportive community of basenji lovers. I also think that when someone posts something like was posted in this thread and the In Heat? thread it is an appropriate response to research the situation and call the person on outright lies. The person made the statement that they did not hit their dogs even though on two previous occassions in the same thread they stated they did hit their dogs but it was only effective in changing the behavior of one of them. The person made the comment that they didn't take the dog to the vet because the vet did not offer the services neccessary and there was no other vet nearby. ComicDom1 found that a little hard to believe having served in the military and being familiar with the services usually offered. He researched the situation and found that the veterinarian on base that the poster referred to did, in fact, have teh neccesary equipment and does offer those services. I do think that this pattern of telling lies effects what others may want to give as advice and it was appropriate to make it public. All of the information was verifiable by publicly available resources.
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I also think Jason did the correct thing by caring for the dogs interests.
These lovely critters can't take care of themselves and when vet imo emergency happens, they are at the mercy of the humans in the house.
We all need to put back a little $$ for these type of issues with our dogs.
Be it birthing issues, or just general illness.
Myself, I have one credit card I keep clear just for vet use.
That way, no matter what my checkbook looks like, the dogs can have the care they need. -
If you or Robin n Jack or anyone else does not like my approach or my posts then you have an option. Use some self control and do not read them or respond to them. I think there is an ignore function in the forum as well.
Jason
This is a public forum. People have a right to post their opinions without being told they don't care about their own pets or neglect/abuse because they don't agree with you or behave like you.
Regarding your quote above…I have one more option...to respond and say what I think...you're not the only one with a voice here. Last time I checked, you aren't any sort of authority around this place.
Oh, and don't assume for one minute that you know all there is to know about someone, their life, etc., by the small snippets they post on this forum.
I wonder if your own life would hold up to the same scrutiny that you seem to put others thru...?That's all I have left to say on this thread.
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Maybe I am wrong here, but isn't the forum about b's and their care?
If someone is saying they are putting their dog in harms way, BY what they have posted, then I think we should be able to point that out.Are we all perfect? Nope, but do hope we get the dogs the vetting they need when things go awfully wrong.
renaultf1, I agree we should give folks the compassion they deserve…but really, did you forget this basenji girl was such a basket case she killed her pups..
Its awful. myself, I think it was not necessary. I would be very interested to hear from the professional breeders how often this type of thing happens.
I do know it happens in puppymills...but in family homes? I would like to know if this is something to expect with birthing basenji pups.My thinking, and you all are quick to correct me if I am wrong,
the ones who were in charge failed the bitch and these dead pups.
I only hope we can all learn from this and breeding is something that should be researched, not done because you don't take care of intact animals. -
Please respect our forum rules and keep it civil. Heated discussions are fine, but lets not use this thread to launch personal attacks at each other, otherwise it will have to be closed.
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I would be very interested to hear from the professional breeders how often this type of thing happens.
I do know it happens in puppymills…but in family homes? I would like to know if this is something to expect with birthing basenji pups.Sharron brings up a good point, but I will go ahead and ask my question in the breeder section where it may better belong.
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Geez-
Reading both this thread and the other thread on this topic makes me honestly want to leave this site entirely.
I know tempers run hot, and everyone is very impassioned, but could you take a deep breath and put yourself in his shoes? He has obviously had a hard time of it….I know the pup did, too, but honestly, is antagonizing him like that really going to do any good?
But, by all means, keep telling him what he should have done. I'm sure that is very useful at this stage of the game.
While you are at it, why don't you let us know when you make a mistake, do something wrong, make the wrong decision, and we can all throw stones at you?
Jason, this is what I said. It wasn't personal either, but you seem to have taken it so.
Below certainly was personal, since it quoted an earlier message from me. and I do not appreciate it.
Your comments certainly make me wonder where your priorities are. Do you care about what happened to the animals? Were you disturbed or outraged at the situation? If so then where is your post in regard to that?
Usually this is what happens when there is lots of drama created. From my experience Drama is usually created by people who thrive on the attention from others. When Drama like what happened here occurs, it causes people like me who care about animals to start getting curious as to what is really going on. Then people like me start looking further into the situation in an attempt to find the truth.
In my opinion, saying that these two posts want to make you leave the site is your attempt to create more drama. Apparently you are not disturbed by what happened, and only care whether or not the posts were antagonistic. This makes me wonder what value you put on the care of your dog or any other animals life. Or maybe if it just not about you or your dog, it just does not matter!
I think if I was out of line, I would have been called on it by the moderator and by a host of others who post. Since that did not happen,then maybe that is a good indication of whether the posts were antagonistic or not!
Do not ever pretend to think you know anything about me or the way I value the care of my dog by the small amount I have posted on this site.
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This is a public forum. People have a right to post their opinions without being told they don't care about their own pets or neglect/abuse because they don't agree with you or behave like you.
Regarding your quote above…I have one more option...to respond and say what I think...you're not the only one with a voice here. Last time I checked, you aren't any sort of authority around this place.
Oh, and don't assume for one minute that you know all there is to know about someone, their life, etc., by the small snippets they post on this forum.
I wonder if your own life would hold up to the same scrutiny that you seem to put others thru...?That's all I have left to say on this thread.
You are just helping make my case at your own expense. You are exactly right, you have the right to respond and say what you think yet you are in disagreement with me doing the same.
Sounds like you are pretty angry and that makes we wonder what the real issue is. You are certainly welcome to Quote me word for word and point out where you think I said your or anyone else does not care about their pet or pets. I would rather you Quote me word for word than attempting to change the context or intent of my message.
As far as authority and reality are concerned, this is the internet which was designed as a communication tool and not a place.
Certainly there are people with authority on the base at Fort Hood that would be interested in the health, welfare, and safety of the animals involved in this situation. Portho's is very lucky that no one has chosen to take the steps necessary to contact the base commander.
The only thing I have claimed it the right to post my opinion, the right to include some facts that support my opinion. It appears that you believe in that right so what is your beef?
Since I chose to investigate further based on what was presented, I really did not have to assume that Portho's had lied to members in this forum. This means that I had more information than you.
While I know its repetitious to ask, where is your post or comments in regard to the neglect and abuse of the dogs involved and the two dead puppies?
You are more than welcome to ask anything about my life you wish to know. I will be happy to answer. Let me help you get started.
I am 51 years old. I hold a Master's degree in Education and I am a certified teacher. I got my education the hard way by working and serving my country. I grew up on the South West Side of Chicago during the Race Riots where people from street gangs were shooting one another. I took a GED and went into the military to serve my country during Nam. I have been divorced. I received sole custody of my children from that marriage when they were 6 and 8. Those children have both completed high school and one of them is almost done with his first two years of college. When I was growing up in Chicago my parents were raising Dobermans. I have had several dogs of different breeds over the years including two different rescues. None of my dogs were ever turned over to the Shelter or Pound as we used to call it. I have never given up a dog because I was moving or the dog had some kind of behavior problem.
I have owned homes in Alabama, Tennessee, and Illinois. I currently own my home.
I love photographing wildlife and I have been published locally many times.
I still get called to photograph events for the local community.
I sail and I am part of the local sailing club as well as part of the national MC Scow organization.
I am the founder of the MC Scow Fleet at our lake.
I am a member of the Masonic lodge, as my father was, and his father before him.
I have a very diverse background that includes both mechanical and electrical abilities as well as other attributes.
I have trouble spelling but then I have Miranda or spell check to look over my shoulder.
I build and fix computers for myself and friends.
I have been to China, Israel, all over Europe, and all over the United States including Alaska but not Hawaii. I have photographed in most places I have visited.
I did not come from a financially wealthy family.
I play the trumpet, the baritone, and a very little bit of piano
Since I am a certified teacher I am a mandated reporter when it comes reporting the abuse of children.
I believe that Animals should not be abused and people should step up and protect them when necessary.
I believe that all people and animals are entitled to proper medical care especially when life threatening and denying them of that right constitutes abuse.
It is a fact, that there are dogs and other animals that are abused or neglected by their owners.
I have street education as well as a formal one. I understand well that sometimes otherwise intelligent people who have been formally educated lack the common sense to put their intelligence to use.
I really like Sharron's Quote in regard to Stupid on Toast.
I understand why Tanza has so much passion in regard to Fanconi and Health testing of Basenji's. I admit that I misunderstood her intentions when I first joined this chat board but with Tanza's and other's help, I was really able to understand the value in what she was advocating and see the bigger picture.
I believe that no rescue organization is perfect, but there is good that can outweigh the bad.
Let me know if there is anything else you would like to know.
Jason
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Jason, this is what I said. It wasn't personal either, but you seem to have taken it so.
Below certainly was personal, since it quoted an earlier message from me. and I do not appreciate it.
Do not ever pretend to think you know anything about me or the way I value the care of my dog by the small amount I have posted on this site.
Your own words are pretty clear. I still do not see you posting in outrage in regard to how the animals were treated. Instead of suggesting that we should put ourselves in his shoes, maybe it would be better to put ourselves in the dead puppies or the mothers shoes.
Your only complaint appears to be in regard to how the message was delivered. Welcome to reality. Different people have different styles of communication and you are not going to be happy with all of them. The focus of these two threads was about the health, welfare, safety, and proper care of the dogs in question. I hope you are happy now that you have succeeded in changing that focus.
The only things I know about you and your values are what you personally reflect in the posts you make in this forum.
Jason
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Comic Don - Aren't you special. Geez, get over yourself.
I've been on the forum briefly and I've read enough, too.
Way too much bickering and know-it-alls for me. -
Comic Don - Aren't you special. Geez, get over yourself.
I've been on the forum briefly and I've read enough, too.
Way too much bickering and know-it-alls for me.Vicki, its ComicDom not Comic Don. Thats ok Vicki I understand why you have a issue with me. As I said in another post there are always three sides to every story. Your side, their side, and the truth.
At least I am willing to put my life up for examination and scrutiny. You certainly welcome to do the same.
Jason
