just incase you didn't see my other post, you need to get involved with the hi country basenji club! nice bunch of people and plenty of basenji lovers
Our New Male Basenji "Roo" and Our 4 year old Female Boston "Bonzo"
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8 wks is just a bit young for a B puppy to go to a new home, IMO…. as they get much more socialization and confidence to stay with their litter mates until 10 to 12 wks.. IMO. Also most breeders do eye test which are typically done on pups at 9 to 10 wks.
Thats interesting. What eye test are they actually doing on the puppies and what qualifies them to do it? What does the breeders eye test mean, and how significant is for a breeder to do this test you describe? From my reading this is the information I found.
Where can I test?: Only with a Board Certified Ophthamologists that are Certified by CERF (Canine Eye Registry Foundation)
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Thats interesting. What eye test are they actually doing on the puppies and what qualifies them to do it? What does the breeders eye test mean, and how significant is for a breeder to do this test you describe? From my reading this is the information I found.
Where can I test?: Only with a Board Certified Ophthamologists that are Certified by CERF (Canine Eye Registry Foundation)
The breeder takes the pupppy to an Opthamologist for the test…we don't do them ourselves.
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Thats interesting. What eye test are they actually doing on the puppies and what qualifies them to do it? What does the breeders eye test mean, and how significant is for a breeder to do this test you describe? From my reading this is the information I found.
Where can I test?: Only with a Board Certified Ophthamologists that are Certified by CERF (Canine Eye Registry Foundation)
Exactly, breeders take their pups to a board certified Ophthamologist for a check up at 9 wks, sorry if you got the impression that breeders were checking eyes. We are looking for genetic concerns such as Coloboma, juvenile cataracts, excession PPM. This is important to a breeding program and also to potential puppy owners. Basenjis with Colobomas or Juvenile Cataracts or that have produced either should not be bred. This along with the other health testing that responsible breeder do before breeding, such as hips (OFA and/or PennHip) OFA elbows, Patellas, thyroid, and of course Fanconi testing. Also eyes should be rechecked (by a board certified ophthamologist) for any changes especially PRA. This along with knowing the vertical and horizional pedigrees of the Basenjis that are being bred and what health concerns and temperaments are in those lines.
As far as food, I noted it was my opinion that Euk was not the best food, and that there were other foods out there that is better… especially due to the corn and the beet pulp. But again, it is my opinion. And there are many discussion on this list already about different foods.
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The breeder takes the pupppy to an Opthamologist for the test…we don't do them ourselves.
Thanks for your timely response. That is exactly what I thought! I just did not understand why the other post was made in regard to a breeder performing the test. I thought I knew better.
Thanks,
Jason
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Exactly, breeders take their pups to a board certified Ophthamologist for a check up at 9 wks, sorry if you got the impression that breeders were checking eyes. We are looking for genetic concerns such as Coloboma, juvenile cataracts, excession PPM. This is important to a breeding program and also to potential puppy owners. Basenjis with Colobomas or Juvenile Cataracts or that have produced either should not be bred. This along with the other health testing that responsible breeder do before breeding, such as hips (OFA and/or PennHip) OFA elbows, Patellas, thyroid, and of course Fanconi testing. Also eyes should be rechecked (by a board certified ophthamologist) for any changes especially PRA. This along with knowing the vertical and horizional pedigrees of the Basenjis that are being bred and what health concerns and temperaments are in those lines.
As far as food, I noted it was my opinion that Euk was not the best food, and that there were other foods out there that is better… especially due to the corn and the beet pulp. But again, it is my opinion. And there are many discussion on this list already about different foods.
Miranda and I have read through all the health tests and concerns. In fact the quote I posted came from the website that contains all the testing information.
I was never confused about who did the eye tests. I knew who did them from my past experiences with other dogs of different breeds. What did concern me was your post implying that the breeder did them. We both certainly knew better.
I have to say, I find it bothersome that once again you are making a comment in regard to the quality of Eukanuba food without offering any alternatives. If you are going to break down a dog food based on ingredients ("Corn and Beet Plup"), then you ought to be willing to provide the percentages of these ingredients that this dog food contains, explain why they are bad, and provide an example of a food that you feel is a better quality. It does not really matter how many different discussion threads that already exist in regard to this. You are making your comments in this thread, and should respond to any questions in regard to those comments here.
Furthermore, if you truly wanted to be helpful, I would think that you would have already provided some alternative foods, instead of dancing around the issue.
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What I do not understand, is that if you feel that Eukanuba is not the best of foods, then why didn't you offer alternative suggestions instead of just putting down Eukanuba.
So far our puppy is not having any issues with the Eukanuba. In fact I have never ever had any issues feeding Eukanuba in the last 16 years. The first ingredient in Eukanuba is Chicken not corn, which means there is more chicken than anything else.
Since our Basenji does not appear to have an allergy to corn, Miranda and I are of the opinion that it would be unwise to assume that he does or will. This puts us in the position of having alternatives if an allergy should develop later.
This has been a recommendation that we have heard from many veterinarians over years. I will be 51 years old this month, and while this is the first Basenji we have owned, this is not the first dog we have owned.
Miranda has a degree in Molecular Biology from the University of IL, and has worked in a Veterinary hospital for several years in the past.
I do not intend to disclose the name of my breeder. I see it as unimportant and unrelated.
There has been much and frequent debate and discussion regarding food. Seems everyone has strong opinions. The important thing is to find a food you are happy with. I know that our breeder uses a food that some here disapprove of, but he's been producing high quality dogs with it for over 20 yrs. Sometimes, you just can't argue with success.:)
I also used to feed Eukanuba to one of my dogs. She was on the weight management food. At that time I had my puppy on Purina puppy chow, my adult B on Eukanuba, and my senior mutt on a different food. It was crazy trying to find space to store all the food bags, LOL, so I switched them all to the same food about a month ago; so far so good. They all look fantastic and are very healthy, active dogs. THAT is my concern, as it is for all of us.The breeder name is often a source of curiousity on the forum because many here breed and/or show and have connections with other breeders and/or their dogs. Also, even for those of us that do not breed or show, we do find that many of our dogs wind up being related which is always fun.:D
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Thanks for your input, we will keep that in mind. We do know that we want to keep a definite waistline as he grows. We also understand that he is a sight hound, and he is very responsive to moving objects as well as unusual sounds. He seems to have a good appetite and his breeder sent him with puppy food. We are slowly changing him over to Eukanuba which is all I prefer to feed my dogs. This puppy was wormed and we keep a close eye on the stools. We have already discussed Fanconi Testing with our vet and plan to have our puppy tested regardless just to insure his status and health.
Jason
Very nice it's a great Idea to have the linkage test done. Though it is not a definite indicator, at least if you get a possibility for Fanconi you prepare yourself for the possibility by having time to more thoroughly research all your options. I can't wait to see pictures of your baby, and your old lady. how are they doing with each other. Good Idea to get him on the same food you feed your girl as soon as possible. I can't imagine having to deal with two separate feeding regimes long term. I only kept Zaire on her kibble that the breeder was feeding her for only like 2 weeks before I switched her over to Charlie's raw diet. Makes things so much more convenient to be able to just feed one diet. I am sure you are already planning on it, but please let your breeder know when you get his Fanconi testing so they can be aware of what their bloodline is doing genetically. Here's hoping you manage to get yourselves some good sleep over the next couple of weeks, again congratulations on your new baby.
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It is important to remember that tone and expression are often difficult to convey in the written form. It will be beneficial to not be too quick to take offense at what a member posts until stepping back to take a breath and try to discern what the intent of the post may have been. Perhaps going through other threads and reading posts by that member will be helpful.
EVERYONE here has much to share, and EVERYONE here wants only the best for the individual Basenjis as well as the entire breed.
Many of the members have been Basenjis owners for many, many years and they have much knowledge and insight to share with those of us who are new to the breed.I am 45 yrs old; I have owned dogs of various breeds {yellow and black labs, doberman, cockapoo, corgi} all my life. I have NEVER experienced a breed quite like the Basenji. They are quite different from other breeds and there may well be much to learn, even for experienced dog owners.
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We are first time Basenji owners, we acquired our 8 week old "Roo" on Tuesday. I had recently lost my longtime (over 15 years) rescue, companion, (American Eskimo Dog "Snowy") and when at a pet store, met a delightful Basenji pup. I had always been interested in the breed, and after watching me interact with the puppy and doing some research, my partner Jason indulged me with our new addition. We thought about rescue, since both Snowy and Bonzo had been rescue dogs, but since Bonzo is older and somewhat territorial, we thought a puppy would be best for her. We contacted some rescue organizations, but the only one that responded was actually puppy mill, disguised as a rescue. We did not want to buy the pup at the pet store because of the puppy mill issues, so we found a nice breeder and Roo came home.
The first few nights were traumatic for all involved. Roo was so lonely for his littermates, and upset about being in a crate. He only seemed to sleep for two hours or so at time! He let us know as soon as he was awake that he wanted out of the kennel so he could go out. Jason spent almost 3 sleepless nights, and my sleep was disturbed as well. Jason has also used Bonzo to teach the puppy some manners and let the puppy know she is not his mother.
It is Day 5 and Roo is finally starting to settle down some. The more he eats, the longer he sleeps, so we are now getting some rest. Other things are going well too, Bonzo is starting to enjoy playing with Roo (in limited doses) and crate training is going well. We are doing everything we can to get Roo out so we can avoid him getting upset because he might have an accident in his crate. Even our Boston Terrier Bonzo wakes us up and lets us know the puppy needs to go out.
I am a little worried about his size but the vet does not seem to be concerned. We are working on fattening him up so he gets the roly poly puppy belly. While we want him to eat and grow properly, we really do not want to overfeed him. There seems to be some confusion as to how tall and how much a Basenji puppy should weigh at 8 weeks. Roo seems to be very healthy and has plenty of energy. Does anyone have any idea how big he should be right now? Is there a growth chart anywhere on line that shows height and weight for Basenji puppies relative to age?
Thanks
Jason and MirandaJason,
Welcome to Basenji Forums! I remember those sleepless nights too:rolleyes:
They can really take a toll on ya! I am glad to hear that Roo is finally starting to settle into his new home. We would love it if you would share some pictures of your new bundle of joy. We just loooovvvveee puppy pics!
With regards to food, I think everyone has a difference of opinion. I have come across people who swear by certain foods and when I tried them, my boy would not touch it. Basically…if it works than by all means....let em eat it. :o
When we had our first boy, he was thin too. He was quite a picky eater. I swear! I think we spent months trying to figure out why he did not want to eat his food. After months of trial and error, we figured out that he was allergic to what we were feeding him. :rolleyes: We went through a half dozen types of food before we finally found one that worked and of course...I will say that its "the best" but im sure someone will disagree :o
Again, welcome and were happy to have you! Can't wait too see pictures of Roo!!!!! -
Hello and welcome to the forum!
Love to see some pictures of your Roo!
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Welcome to the forums! It looks like you have spent a lot of time researching the breed before bringing Roo home.
I see there has been some discussion of food and thought I would supply a link to a thread on this forum about food that starts with a link to an article about rating foods and how to decode the labels.
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=1317
I also see that you do not wish to share your puppy's breeder which is fine. Many here ask because we like to know if we might be "family" through our dogs.
I have found many who dogs related to mine mostly through Kenset/Sherwood but also connections to others on the Forums through Tamsala and Serengeti and Avongaras. Knowing the relationships has made for some interesting observations between those of us who have relatives and observe similar quirks.
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What I do not understand, is that if you feel that Eukanuba is not the best of foods, then why didn't you offer alternative suggestions instead of just putting down Eukanuba.
So far our puppy is not having any issues with the Eukanuba. In fact I have never ever had any issues feeding Eukanuba in the last 16 years. The first ingredient in Eukanuba is Chicken not corn, which means there is more chicken than anything else.
Since our Basenji does not appear to have an allergy to corn, Miranda and I are of the opinion that it would be unwise to assume that he does or will. This puts us in the position of having alternatives if an allergy should develop later.
This has been a recommendation that we have heard from many veterinarians over years. I will be 51 years old this month, and while this is the first Basenji we have owned, this is not the first dog we have owned.
Miranda has a degree in Molecular Biology from the University of IL, and has worked in a Veterinary hospital for several years in the past.
I do not intend to disclose the name of my breeder. I see it as unimportant and unrelated.
I think Tanza was just saying that if you think your boy is small it could be due to his lack of eating properly because you are feeding Euk & several dogs, on this forum, have been allergic to the foods with corn in them. I don't believe she was trying to attack your choice of foods, just offering her opinion. It is difficult, like JM said, to get the proper tone out across via internet but remember to not jump to conclusion about people here who are trying to help answer your questions about weight. My breeder fed Euk, I switched to Blue Buffalo because I don't like many of the Euk ingrediants, including the by-products. My vet pushed Euk because that is what they actually sell at my vet's office! Now that is not to say I don't think people should feed Euk! Just what I decided for my boy who is 4.5 months old. For the same money I find BB to be a better quality food.
Also, we ask EVERYONE who their breeder is because like a few others posted, we have found some of our dogs to be distant relatives! I have actually found my baby's brother via this forum & we have met up for puppy playdates! I have also found several members on here who have distant relatives of my baby. It's just fun to see how many of us on here are "related"
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Welcome to the forum - don't be put off by the "tone" of some comments (remember since you can't see the person "talking" you can't really tell the "tone" of their voice). There is a LOT of experience in this forum and lots of stories about what did or did not happen in different situations.
As for the food issue – if you do a search on this forum for food ratings you'll find lots of threads (especially "what foods are best") relating to puppy food, adult food, meat vs dry, brand ratings, allergies, different experiences people have had with different brands. Here's an additional website that has food reviews: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/
Also be sure to check out the nutrition and feeding subforum. -
I think Tanza was just saying that if you think your boy is small it could be due to his lack of eating properly because you are feeding Euk & several dogs, on this forum, have been allergic to the foods with corn in them. I don't believe she was trying to attack your choice of foods, just offering her opinion. It is difficult, like JM said, to get the proper tone out across via internet but remember to not jump to conclusion about people here who are trying to help answer your questions about weight. My breeder fed Euk, I switched to Blue Buffalo because I don't like many of the Euk ingrediants, including the by-products. My vet pushed Euk because that is what they actually sell at my vet's office! Now that is not to say I don't think people should feed Euk! Just what I decided for my boy who is 4.5 months old. For the same money I find BB to be a better quality food.
Also, we ask EVERYONE who their breeder is because like a few others posted, we have found some of our dogs to be distant relatives! I have actually found my baby's brother via this forum & we have met up for puppy playdates! I have also found several members on here who have distant relatives of my baby. It's just fun to see how many of us on here are "related"
NO, I was not saying that the pup was small because of feeding Euk.. I just made a comment that IMO, there were better foods…. but to each their own as many of us feed the raw diet, myself included... and on some days kibble cause it is easier to travel with. I was asking really how much the pup weighed at 8 wks (and I did make a commment that IMO, wks is a bit early to place a Basenji pup, note IMO) and why they thought he might be small.
In regards to the eye tests... the fact that "I" said "breeders" test... certainly was taken out of context... in the world of breeders (at least responsible ones) it is typically referred to as the breeders test, meaning the breeders "arrange" for the tests, like Eyes, Hips, Fanconi, Thyroid, etc... so if someone wants to try and push buttons, be my guest.. long and short, responsible breeders health test "before" breeding and "before" placing pups. And they discuss with potential owners all the testing done and what they might expect with their pup... and also why they might have bred X to Y even if one of the health tests were not the most perfect results, but that they made a decision that they (the breeder) could live with the results.. (Fanconi excluded)
Many people take exception to questions from some of us regarding health testing and the "lack" of it by BYB and pups coming from PM's. You know what... I don't care, if one person takes the fact that health testing is important "before" the litter is bred and gets a healthly, happy, well adjusted, good tempered puppy in the bargin, then it is worth it....
It is irresponsible for anyone to have bred a litter after July of 2007 without having done the Fanconi DNA test, period.. there is no excuses, no valid reasoning that would make it acceptable.
And yes, many of us have found common Basenjis in our kids pedigrees.. and not only is it fun to find them, but also that if there are any health concerns, we can share those also.
In the end, if pushing about health testing saves on person and/or one Basenji from the heartbreak of something like Fanconi or any other health problem.. then it is worth it....
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NO, I was not saying that the pup was small because of feeding Euk.. I just made a comment that IMO, there were better foods…. but to each their own as many of us feed the raw diet, myself included... and on some days kibble cause it is easier to travel with. I was asking really how much the pup weighed at 8 wks (and I did make a comment that IMO, wks is a bit early to place a Basenji pup, note IMO) and why they thought he might be small.
Hey Pat,
Do you have an opinion on any of the freeze dried products for raw diet dogs? I was just wondering for times that I may have to be out of town. I often take the dogs with me, and have no problem packing a cooler for their diet. But I was thinking about it for when I have a puppy sitter that may not be too keen on the raw meat and bones. I have looked into a couple different pre made raw diets for this, but wanted a second opinion from someone who feeds raw. -
There has been much and frequent debate and discussion regarding food. Seems everyone has strong opinions. The important thing is to find a food you are happy with. I know that our breeder uses a food that some here disapprove of, but he's been producing high quality dogs with it for over 20 yrs. Sometimes, you just can't argue with success.:)
I also used to feed Eukanuba to one of my dogs. She was on the weight management food. At that time I had my puppy on Purina puppy chow, my adult B on Eukanuba, and my senior mutt on a different food. It was crazy trying to find space to store all the food bags, LOL, so I switched them all to the same food about a month ago; so far so good. They all look fantastic and are very healthy, active dogs. THAT is my concern, as it is for all of us.The breeder name is often a source of curiousity on the forum because many here breed and/or show and have connections with other breeders and/or their dogs. Also, even for those of us that do not breed or show, we do find that many of our dogs wind up being related which is always fun.:D
Thanks for your response. This is not the first time I have run into the food debate. I have to put some faith in Miranda's scientific background, as well as her past work experience. I also know what my experiences were when I raised a show dog of a different breed.
I sure that one of the only things that everyone will agree on in this forum is that nothing is perfect.
Miranda and I are not interested in becoming breeders. We just wanted to give this puppy the same love and care that we give Bonzo our Rescue Terrier, and that we gave Snowy, our American Eskimo. At least we were able to extend Snowy's life 14 or 15 years. I fed him Eukanuba all that time. So we believe that Snowy had a life span of at least 17 years, which I find pretty exceptional. Bonzo has remained very healthy as well. In the 4 or 5 years since I rescued her, I am proud to say she has only had one ear ache we had to deal with. From what I understand, that is a pretty good track record for a Boston.
As I mentioned in another post, Roo, our Basenji puppy, does not seem to have an issue with the food we are giving him. In fact, he is full of energy, playfulness. I am sure he has a little pixie in him as well. We will look after his health as well as we have looked after Bonzo and Snowy's health.
Roo, may just become a great pet, or we may possibly involve him in some agility events. A lot will depend on his temperament, and how well I can obedience train him. I am currently investigating Ceaser Milan's methods because I have great respect for him and I think we are on the same page. I believe a dog really needs to understand the order in the pack.
I feel fortunate that Miranda and I have the time to spend socializing and working with Roo. One thing I am sure of, either we will train him or he will train us.
I did notice that there appear to be some photos of Basenji's walking into a Lake. I am very interested in this because I understand this breed does not necessarily like water. Miranda and I also sail so it would be great to be able to bring the dog with us on the boat if we can get him used to the water.
Jason and Miranda
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Hey Pat,
Do you have an opinion on any of the freeze dried products for raw diet dogs? I was just wondering for times that I may have to be out of town. I often take the dogs with me, and have no problem packing a cooler for their diet. But I was thinking about it for when I have a puppy sitter that may not be too keen on the raw meat and bones. I have looked into a couple different pre made raw diets for this, but wanted a second opinion from someone who feeds raw.I have used them but not often enough to really have an opinion. But the people that I know that have used them, really like them.
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Very nice it's a great Idea to have the linkage test done. Though it is not a definite indicator, at least if you get a possibility for Fanconi you prepare yourself for the possibility by having time to more thoroughly research all your options. I can't wait to see pictures of your baby, and your old lady. how are they doing with each other. Good Idea to get him on the same food you feed your girl as soon as possible. I can't imagine having to deal with two separate feeding regimes long term. I only kept Zaire on her kibble that the breeder was feeding her for only like 2 weeks before I switched her over to Charlie's raw diet. Makes things so much more convenient to be able to just feed one diet. I am sure you are already planning on it, but please let your breeder know when you get his Fanconi testing so they can be aware of what their bloodline is doing genetically. Here's hoping you manage to get yourselves some good sleep over the next couple of weeks, again congratulations on your new baby.
Again thank you for your information. Actually the Breeder has already been in touch with us several times on the phone, just to follow up and check on the puppy and us. I think that gesture alone speaks well of him. I do plan to follow your suggestion and let the breeder know what the bloodline is doing genetically. I think you and I are on the same page in a lot of respects.
I have to tell you this little guy is wearing this old man out. When he is not sleeping, we are either playing, or walking. So both of us are getting plenty of exercise. I think Miranda is even running with him. He seems to have taken to a leash and collar very well so far. Whats interesting is my other Dog Bonzo wakes us up at night and in the morning the minute she hears him cry to go out.
Jason
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. Whats interesting is my other Dog Bonzo wakes us up at night and in the morning the minute she hears him cry to go out.
Jason
Oh how sweet. The old dogs seem to really know how to become good guardians to the young ones. It always does my heart well to see how the young ones can really bring out some great qualities in the older dogs. Here's hopping to see some pictures soon (that is if you can keep the little guy still for long enough to get the pics <g>).</g>
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Jason,
Welcome to Basenji Forums! I remember those sleepless nights too:rolleyes:
They can really take a toll on ya! I am glad to hear that Roo is finally starting to settle into his new home. We would love it if you would share some pictures of your new bundle of joy. We just loooovvvveee puppy pics!
With regards to food, I think everyone has a difference of opinion. I have come across people who swear by certain foods and when I tried them, my boy would not touch it. Basically…if it works than by all means....let em eat it. :o
When we had our first boy, he was thin too. He was quite a picky eater. I swear! I think we spent months trying to figure out why he did not want to eat his food. After months of trial and error, we figured out that he was allergic to what we were feeding him. :rolleyes: We went through a half dozen types of food before we finally found one that worked and of course...I will say that its "the best" but im sure someone will disagree :o
Again, welcome and were happy to have you! Can't wait too see pictures of Roo!!!!!I started an Album on your forum. His first image should be up there. I have been shooting sports for many years for the local paper, as well as wildlife, models, and other areas of interest.
I will try to get some more images up as he grows. I shoot 8 frames per second outside, so hopefully I will get some pretty good shots.
Jason
