Dew C;aws

[Beckis]

Ok, I see. Is it the little claw a bit up on the leg?

[tanza]

@Beckis:

Ok, I see. Is it the little claw a bit up on the leg?

Yes, it is like the "5th" toe… or we sometimes refer to it as "thumbs"....

[JazzysMom]

@tanza:

Yes, and while they are easy to see and remember to trim on short haired dogs they are mostly forgotten on long haired dogs, don't know how many of you have seen dew claws that have completed grown around and back in the skin… pretty nasty....

Yeah, like I said on Gypsy they are not visible at all so dh has to try to remember to cut them. When he doesn't, it doesn't take long at all for them to become a serious PIA to cut because they curl under so quickly.

[Barklessdog]

That is pretty odd, I think.. but I have known cases that the have grown back if not removed properly…. bottom line is however, in the US responsible breeders do remove them..

My dog's dew claw was bothering him tonight once again - It's obvious a source of pain/discomfort to him, 7 years later!

[tanza]

Looks to me like it was not totally removed or it partly grew back…..judging by the redness at that area... and like I said, if all the bone is not removed it can grow back...

[massagemom3]

Sally still has her's, she came w/them she is 2.5 yrs. old She already broke her 4th reg,nail. Should I get tehm removed? I think I should….

[renaultf1]

@massagemom3:

Sally still has her's, she came w/them she is 2.5 yrs. old She already broke her 4th reg,nail. Should I get tehm removed? I think I should….

I don't know…based on Pat (Tanza's response) it sounds like it is a big ordeal for anything other than a pup.

I took pet sat for of a Jack Russell for years who had his dew claws (lived to the age of 15). There were times they bothered him (when he caught them on something, but if you looked at them it didn't look like something that could be easily removed.

[massagemom3]

o.k. I'll skip it then, she already so nervous about everything in life. Except for us. I think she was negl. or abused.. No more trauma.

[nkjvcjs]

Reviving an old thread, but this is something I am interested in.

All of my dogs have had dewclaws, as I have always had rescues. (I am using 'dewclaws' and 'dews' here to refer to both actual dewclaws and 'fore claws' for simplicity.) One foster had both front and rear dews, and they were loose, and floppy, and hardly seemed attached to his leg at all. Most dogs I have lived with had tight, front only dews. On most of my dogs, they have just been there, never a problem, but never particularly useful either. (My dogs get nails trimmed every Tuesday, and I am used to them, so they never grow around).

Katie is different. She uses her dewclaws. They are tight, but not as tight as on my boy, and she has some control over them. She can move them slightly laterally, and and slightly up and down. She uses them a lot. She holds toys and bones with them, uses them when hunting, picks her teeth with them, washes her face with them, and digs them in when climbing our (6 foot, stockade) fence. She also gets very low, and uses them when she runs, especially on corners. I almost feel like it would be unfair to have taken such a useful tool from her.

After seeing Katie use her dews, I am not so sure about dewclaw removal anymore. I have also read that carpal arthritis is more common in performance dogs that have had dewclaws removed. (http://www.jandemellobordercollie.com/DewClaws.htm) So, since I am interested in a performance dog first, and show dog second, would it be best to look for a breeder who is willing to leave the dewclaw? Are there good, responsible breeders that would leave the dewclaws?

Thanks,

-Nicole

[khanis]

A basenji does not NEED dewclaws. They are not there to help him in any way.
He isn't a water dog that can use additional swimmers.
They are mostly an annoyance when they catch them on something and then need vet care for it.
I do them myself, generally at 24=48 hours old.
One time I had two grow back, same pup.
That was what happened when some moron stood above me asking me over and over if I was done yet!
The owners did have them both removed at 5 months of age [my vet wanted to wait til then since he was putting him under]. It was a short surgery and he was healed up in just a few weeks. He was walking like normal that evening.
It is much less traumatic than a dog breaking a leg, having an umbilical hernia repaired, etc.
If there are continual issues, I would have some removed.

Personally, I prefer the dog to have the least opportunities to 'catch' themselves on something. I have had quite a few rescues over the years, but only part of them with dew claws. One of them 3 years ago pulled out the nail on a dew claw… I was not happy.. neither was he!
Were he dew claw free, he would not have had that issue.

To answer your question, I cannot see any breeder leaving them on for you. They do not know what pup you'd be getting, and I cannot see anyone leaving them on their pups for one potential puppy owner. If you like the breeder and they like you, that is what should be most important.

[Benkura]

I think this post is really interesting. It really shows the difference between US breeders & UK breeders. I also think it is unfair to call breeders who leave dewclaws on BYBs! I have 4 Bs and only one has no dews. I have bred a litter and left the dews on as I see no reason for removing them. I won't be removing them in future either! As Basi says it is likely to be made illegal to remove dew claws in the UK.

[tanza]

@Benkura:

I think this post is really interesting. It really shows the difference between US breeders & UK breeders. I also think it is unfair to call breeders who leave dewclaws on BYBs! I have 4 Bs and only one has no dews. I have bred a litter and left the dews on as I see no reason for removing them. I won't be removing them in future either! As Basi says it is likely to be made illegal to remove dew claws in the UK.

Yes, I agree about dogs born other then the US… however in the US, it is still standard practice to have dew claws removed, so in the US 99% of puppies that have dew claws have come from a Puppy Mill or BYB

[nkjvcjs]

@Benkura:

I have 4 Bs and only one has no dews. I have bred a litter and left the dews on as I see no reason for removing them.

Do your B's use their dewclaws?

I totally understand that dewclaws have become a simple, visual way to distinguish between a breeder who has put a lot of work and money into a litter, and a breeder who has not.

The AKC standard says "Dewclaws are usually removed" which would support breeders who want to be successful in the conformation ring removing dews. Do internationally bred B's who still have dews win in conformation?

If you had asked me before I got Katie, I would have said, definitely take them off. No question. I had never seen a dog use them before Katie. Now I am not sure where I stand, which is why I am trying to learn.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the article I linked to? The vet who wrote that article is the same one who wrote "Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete" Which has gotten a lot of attention lately.

Has anyone ever had or heard of carpal arthritis or wrist problems in one of their dogs? I assume coursing would put a ton of pressure on the wrist, so if veteran coursers with no dews are running for 7 or 8 years and not having wrist issues, then I would assume it to be a rare problem in B's.

-Nicole

[tanza]

I have never known a B to have "wrist" issues due to having dew claws removed. But I have seen especially coursing ripped and injured B's that still had dew claws…. since there have recently been many breeders that have imported from overseas (and exported overseas).. that we are seeing more even in the US with dew claws since it is not legal to have them removed and yes they win in conformation. Of course the ones that are exported, have had them removed one of course being Millie..... who is a pretty top winning B in Europe

[lvoss]

All of my basenjis have had their dew claws removed. My 11 year old is still coursing and has no issues with his wrists. My 8 year old is also coursing with no problems and has been in the ASFA Top Twenty for the last couple of years. I know other veteran coursers who doing well without signs of issues. I will also say that as a breed basenjis hold up a whole lot better than other breeds. I know many dogs of other breeds who have recurring issues and many are retired before they reach veteran age.

I got Nicky a chiropractic adjustment at 9 years old because he was dropping his tail. The chiropractor couldn't believe he was 9 years old and it was his first adjustment ever. He only needed two minor adjustments and he hasn't been dropping his tail since.

[Benkura]

My Bs use their dews. The 3 that have them find it much easier to chew on a bone for example than the one who has had them removed.

I treat them like all the other claws and clip them from an early age so the Bs are used to it. The one B with no dews HATES having his claws cut - maybe because of the trauma of having his dews removed?? Who knows?

As for the showring, 'Chance' my new champion has his dews and his mother - she has 2 CCs - and his brother Trouper - he has one CC. I don't think it makes much difference in the UK.

Friends of mine have only just stopped coursing their dogs (due to age) and they have their dews and have not experienced problems.

[tanza]

My personal opinion is that I would rather have them removed…. but that said, if it became normal practice in the US to leave them, I would not have a problem with it... same as if I got a pup from overseas that had them. Of course it is one more "claw" to keep trimmed...ggg, but at least on a short haired dog you can see them...

[nobarkus]

Mine still has his. My others had them removed. I will just have to keep it trimmed.

[etzbseder]

Medjai still has his dew claws. I haven't payed much attention to if he uses them or not, but when he cleans his eye goup, that might be easier. He hasn't had any issues with them running around at the park, playing with dogs, digging, or doing anything else.

[agilebasenji]

Re performance dogs and removal of dewclaws:

Digital, my brindlewonderkid, had his removed. He is 12.5 years old and still active in agility. (although now he is doing a lower jump height) I would guess I've averaged about a weekend a month at an agility trial for the last 10 years. (yes, 10 years, i can hardly believe it myself, but we did start competing in 99.) Add to that training time (which has slowed over the past few years). And he has been an active coursing dog (muliple best in field dog). In fact, he and Jet the tri-ing ran Mother's Day weekend. Sort of a second puppyhood if you will. He ran twice, enjoyed himself and the next day he was out in the yard playing with the malinois. I expected to see some stiffness, but no. I also ran him one fun run in Shawnee 3 or 4 weeks ago. Both coursing and agility put a lot of strain on the pasterns and I haven't seen any sign of soreness or arthritis in Digital or Jet.

Jet is 11.5 and has also done coursing and agility, but not quite to the extent of Digital. His dewclaw was not totally removed and he did have to have surgery on it last year, but it does not seem to bother since.

Both dogs started getting joint suppliments around 7 or 8 years of age as a preventative measure.

I do know that several people who lure course dogs with dewclaws are careful to wrap them before running the dog. I also have heard the argument that the "thumb" is an important accupunture point and that the dewclaw is useful when the dog is running full out. BUT, I also have a friend who was out hunting once and a dog got it's dew ripped off, all the way up the leg and the dog bled out before they got it to the vet. That's hearsay, so you may or may not want to believe it, but based on my own dogs, I'd have say removing the dewclaws has NOT be detremental to their performance.