Okay, deep growling..when moving Tobias?

[nala121498]

Nala doesn't like to be disturbed while sleeping anywhere! She makes a noise of protest, but I wouldn't call it a growl. It's more of a groan with some noises afterwards. She sleeps under the covers with us, ideally between someones legs or in the "nook" of our knees. She groans if we move and then sighs when back "in place".
Nala also will play with me and gnaw ever-so-gently on my fingers when we've been playing and then she relaxes. She also will gently use her front teeth on my arm, as if she is scratching herself. It's very cute. Almost like I'm in her exclusive club (of 1)!! LOL! They are very sweet, adorable dogs, unique dogs, aren't they??

[tanza]

@nala121498:

Nala doesn't like to be disturbed while sleeping anywhere! She makes a noise of protest, but I wouldn't call it a growl. It's more of a groan with some noises afterwards. She sleeps under the covers with us, ideally between someones legs or in the "nook" of our knees. She groans if we move and then sighs when back "in place".
Nala also will play with me and gnaw ever-so-gently on my fingers when we've been playing and then she relaxes. She also will gently use her front teeth on my arm, as if she is scratching herself. It's very cute. Almost like I'm in her exclusive club (of 1)!! LOL! They are very sweet, adorable dogs, unique dogs, aren't they??

The teeth on your arm is what we call "D-Flea"ing"….. it is quite common in our breed....

[Mantis]

Barkless, it is just their way of saying, I am comfortable, don't move me.

Caesar is 6 and has just started doing this. I gave the two boys a new bed and they love it. Caesar loves it so much that he wont come out of the kennel in the morning to pee before work.

I actually pull him out by his legs. He rolls onto his back as I drag him out. He is too crazy….

No big deal. If I hear it, I definately pick him up completely and move him so he knows his growling has no effect on me.

He just curls up next to me anyway.....

[Barklessdog]

Our male used to go psycho when we let him sleep with us if you bumped him in a deep sleep. He nows sleeps in his crate for the last three years. He even asks to go to bed in his crate because he can then really relax.

He's always trying to be alpha, but were not having that and he knows it. It's sad that he can't but he is a much better dog "observing" the alpha dog rules. He's a much happier dog now.

We let our othe dog sleep with us. She might growl, but never bites. The worst part is her sleeping in the middle of the bed, then stretches hers paws out in a locked positioin with those little prickly nails. Or if you get too close she kicks you with her back legs like a kanagroo!

[jys1011]

Ha ha!! I get the kicks too from Topaz when we're all on the couch it's too funny

Barkless-with the growling just pick her up & move her. It's not her bed, it's yours so learn how to claim & she'll get the hint. Topaz used to do this as well whenever she was asked to leave the couch. Now she gets the collar & she knows it's time to move it!

Youngandtired-have you tried leaving her in the house with a kong every time you leave?? Even if you don't close the door of her crate can you leave a kong filled with either wet food or home cooked chicken & parmesan cheese or Peanut Butter just something absolutely delicious that she never gets any other time! So when it's time for you to leave she'll think…"oh my I get to have that extra yummy treat because mom is leaving & it's great!!!" Try to associate your leaving with something very good..something irresistible cookie treats just will not do.

[felakuti]

i read somewhere that the growling when you go to pick them up is a very primal response…in africa when a dog is sleeping the only thing that would approach and touch him would be an enemy, therefore the deep throated warning growl. I respect that growl, i dont know how you feel about it, i back away and leave the dog alone. it's serious.

[nomrbddgs]

I would have to say depends on where he/she is sleeping-if it's on MY bed, MY furniture-I have a problem with that. If it's in HIS/HER crate that's their personal space and to leave them alone.

[tanza]

@nomrbddgs:

I would have to say depends on where he/she is sleeping-if it's on MY bed, MY furniture-I have a problem with that. If it's in HIS/HER crate that's their personal space and to leave them alone.

I have to say, I mostly agree with your Arlene…. However even in their crates I want to be able to get them if I need to.... but your are right, they do get personal space to a degree....

[Quercus]

@tanza:

I have to say, I mostly agree with your Arlene…. However even in their crates I want to be able to get them if I need to.... but your are right, they do get personal space to a degree....

I agree. I don't like growling. I will put up with a little "complaining" but I will still make the dog follow thru and move. Luckily, I haven't had a dog that will bite in this situation. So I just tell them to knock it off, grab their collar and pull them off. If I had a biter, I would need to invest more work in training them to hop off the bed/couch/whatever on request

[Mantis]

Well, what is interesting about this topic is that you can often read of basenjis that have been put onto the Brat rescue pages because of the growling and parents afraid for their children.

It is important to determine if it is killer growling or just grumbles.

[tanza]

@Mantis:

Well, what is interesting about this topic is that you can often read of basenjis that have been put onto the Brat rescue pages because of the growling and parents afraid for their children.

It is important to determine if it is killer growling or just grumbles.

Most likely both, and grumbles can certainly lead to "real growling" and possible biting…

[nomrbddgs]

Oh, I didn't say I would put up with it-just meant that I would expect it more.

[Quercus]

Right…and a dog that "grumbles" at an adult may very well snap at child. So I can understand why families with kids may not want to wait around to find out how serious the dog is.

Again, this is why we say over and over that Basenjis are not for everyone! They are a Level 3 breed, and way too many Level 1 owners end up with them, and have no idea what to expect, and how to deal with issues...

[Mantis]

can you tell us what the levels mean? I have never heard of that?

[felakuti]

I can still remember the first time i ever met a basenji, they were in crates at a dog show in boston…as i approached one of the crates the little dog in the crate let out with the most unbelievably scarey growls and snarls i have ever heard in my life. scared the heck out of me. we are on our third and fourth Bs now and i really respect that little growl when it starts. let sleeping dogs lie.

[Quercus]

@Mantis:

can you tell us what the levels mean? I have never heard of that?

Well…it isn't anything really formal. I stole it from a workshop I went to a few months ago. Sue Sternberg said, and I will paraphrase: There are different levels of which people are involved in dog ownership. The huge majority of people are Level 1 dog owners...they want a nice family dog, they don't want to invest much time, money or effort training it, they don't want to accept a lot of "quirkiness" in a dog. Level 2 dog owners are willing to put some time and effort into their dog's behavior. They often wanted a Level 1 dog, but ended up with a Level 2 dog, and were committed enough to the dog to get some help and training. Then there are the Level 3 dog owners...we kinda like dogs that are more of a challenge. Could be trainers that like a "project" dog, or rescuers that take a dog nobody else wants, or people who end up with an aggressive dog and learn everything they can about working with aggressive dogs (raising hand). People who don't mind moving the garbage and the toilet paper to keep it out of the dog's way...people who rearrange their back yard for the dogs' enjoyment...you get the picture So many basenjis are Level 3...and even the best basenji is a Level 2

Make more sense?

[Duke]

@felakuti:

I can still remember the first time i ever met a basenji, they were in crates at a dog show in boston…as i approached one of the crates the little dog in the crate let out with the most unbelievably scarey growls and snarls i have ever heard in my life. scared the heck out of me. we are on our third and fourth Bs now and i really respect that little growl when it starts. let sleeping dogs lie.

Ha ha ha! LOL!! This is really funny! I can only imagine the look on your face. :eek: Thanks - I really needed a good chuckle!

[gbroxon]

Magnum started snarking at my husband moving him from his sleeping place (on our bed) a few months after we got him (he was over a year old, at the time). Before that, my husband just scooped him up and moved him. All it took to manage his behavior was for my husband to offer a tiny treat for an "off" and a "sit." Magnum now knows the routine and, as soon as my husband opens the bedroom door, is off the bed and sitting, waiting for his treat, allowing for my husband to claim his place and then Magnum to claim his.

I think snarky sleep behavior is a Basenji trait. I also feel that sometimes managing the behavior, rather than trying to eliminate it, makes everyone happy. It did for us, in this type of situation.

[tanza]

@gbroxon:

Magnum started snarking at my husband moving him from his sleeping place (on our bed) a few months after we got him (he was over a year old, at the time). Before that, my husband just scooped him up and moved him. All it took to manage his behavior was for my husband to offer a tiny treat for an "off" and a "sit." Magnum now knows the routine and, as soon as my husband opens the bedroom door, is off the bed and sitting, waiting for his treat, allowing for my husband to claim his place and then Magnum to claim his.

I think snarky sleep behavior is a Basenji trait. I also feel that sometimes managing the behavior, rather than trying to eliminate it, makes everyone happy. It did for us, in this type of situation.

You are correct, but that goes for all dogs… manage the behavior which when you think about it, eliminates it.....
And not sure that it is just a Basenji trait...

[Quercus]

@gbroxon:

Magnum started snarking at my husband moving him from his sleeping place (on our bed) a few months after we got him (he was over a year old, at the time). Before that, my husband just scooped him up and moved him. All it took to manage his behavior was for my husband to offer a tiny treat for an "off" and a "sit." Magnum now knows the routine and, as soon as my husband opens the bedroom door, is off the bed and sitting, waiting for his treat, allowing for my husband to claim his place and then Magnum to claim his.

I think snarky sleep behavior is a Basenji trait. I also feel that sometimes managing the behavior, rather than trying to eliminate it, makes everyone happy. It did for us, in this type of situation.

I consider what you did to be training there, gbroxon. Management would be saying the dog isn't allowed to sleep in the bed anymore because of the behavior.

Management is what we do when either there is no simple training solution (eg trying to get two dogs who hate each other to live together) or when we can't invest the time at the moment, or for some other reason it is impossible to train a new/replacement behavior (eg table surfing at our house is at an all time high because my son offers food and drops food and leaves food for the dogs; I don't have the time, and he doesn't have the capacity to change right now, so dogs don't hang out in the room while we eat)

Anyhow, I think what you are saying is you can't train how the dog "feels" about interupting his sleep, but you can change how they react…which I think is absolutely accurate....and I think that is a great way to train.